[AusNOG] AusNOG Digest, Vol 4, Issue 33

Thu Jun 14 17:35:59 EST 2012

Great event James..thoroughly enjoyed the experience of watching a Telco make Telco sexy again... Well done

Carl @ mobsource 

-------- Original message --------
Subject: AusNOG Digest, Vol 4, Issue 33 
From: ausnog-request at lists.ausnog.net 
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Vocus Harbour Crossing (Lincoln Dale)
   2. Re: Vocus cable photos (Jason Leschnik)
   3. Re: Vocus cable photos (Joseph Saxton)
   4. Re: Vocus Harbour Crossing (Christopher Pilgrim)
   5. Re: Vocus cable photos (Stuart Wilson)
   6. Re: Vocus Harbour Crossing (Alex West)
   7. Re: Vocus Harbour Crossing (Paul Brooks)
   8. Re: Vocus Harbour Crossing (Alex West)

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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:15:10 +1000
From: Lincoln Dale <ltd at aristanetworks.com>
To: Christopher Pilgrim <chris at pilgrim.net.au>
Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Vocus Harbour Crossing
Message-ID:
<CAAhBB_BYqhb5eJA1GEgNAcSqeDqHS+EzOtRMqWb1Z4Hvgw2sPA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Christopher Pilgrim
<chris at pilgrim.net.au>wrote:

> Measuring the latency across the harbour is hardly relevant.

Dare I suggest it, but the fact that this is being put in by Vocus means
that there probably is at least someone with money who think it is relevant.

>
> The lowest latency between the ASX at Gore Hill and major finance
> buildings (say 2 Chifley Sq, Governor Phillip Tower, AMP Building for
> example) will always be through the harbour tunnel, and you could even
> argue that the lowest latency from the ASX to Global Switch is still via
> the bridge by the time you take into account the network either side of the
> actual harbour crossing.
>

Not sure I follow you.  All I'd expect either side of the actual harbour is
a splice and no pesky conversion from photons to electrons let alone
anything above layer 1.

> There is some demand for low latency circuits between ASX Gore Hill and
> Chi-X at Equinix SY1, but as Chi-X currently account for only  2-3% of
> trading volume in Australia (at the moment anyway) I'm not sure how much
> demand there will actually be.
>

Arbitrage is only part of the equation and as you state not as relevant in
the Australian industry at this point in time. In reality, arbitrage can't
really be that useful in Australia as the rules state that market orders
must be met at the lowest price between Chi-X and ASX anyway.

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Ankur Puri <Ankur.Puri at au.ntt.com> wrote:

>  Someone has been reading the news and CommsDay! J
>

i hadn't, actually. Just knew the geography and demands of certain
customers very very well. :)

cheers,

lincoln.
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:18:12 +1000
From: Jason Leschnik <leschnik at gmail.com>
To: "Darren Ward (darrward)" <darrward at cisco.com>
Cc: "ausnog at ausnog.net" <ausnog at ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Vocus cable photos
Message-ID:
<CAN1XHtd0MaunwhGwE9RkHtZHXOTo710ZLyyR5mRO7XWdEDrTrA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Does the bridge itself allow for any infrastructure to be run across it?

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Darren Ward (darrward) <darrward at cisco.com
> wrote:

>  Image 14 on the itNews link backs that one up ;)****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net [mailto:
> ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of *Lincoln Dale
> *Sent:* Thursday, 14 June 2012 11:58 AM
> *To:* David Hughes
> *Cc:* ausnog at ausnog.net
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Vocus cable photos****
>
> ** **
>
> On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 11:25 AM, David Hughes <David at hughes.com.au>
> wrote:****
>
> Awesome stuff James!   I wonder if there was a commercial justification
> for this or if it was just to get better bandwidth into the Vocus office in
> North Sydney  :-)****
>
>
> If I were into betting, my money would be a few folks that care about
> every microsecond and want the most direct fiber path from the CBD to a
> certain facility in Gore Hill ...****
>
>
>
> cheers,
>
> lincoln.****
>
> _______________________________________________
> AusNOG mailing list
> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>
>

-- 
Regards,
Jason Leschnik.

[m] 0432 35 4224
[w@] jason dot leschnik <at> ansto dot gov dot au<jason.leschnik at ansto.gov.au>
[U@] jml974 at uow.edu.au
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:28:07 +1000
From: "Joseph Saxton" <Joe.Saxton at workforce.com.au>
To: "Jason Leschnik" <leschnik at gmail.com>,	"Darren Ward \(darrward\)"
<darrward at cisco.com>
Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Vocus cable photos
Message-ID:
<4D95065EA54F864D8281FDBC7AA067AD048E0A65 at ros002.wforce.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I was thinking the same thing.

From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net
[mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Jason Leschnik
Sent: Thursday, 14 June 2012 12:18
To: Darren Ward (darrward)
Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Vocus cable photos

Does the bridge itself allow for any infrastructure to be run across it?

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Darren Ward (darrward)
<darrward at cisco.com> wrote:

Image 14 on the itNews link backs that one up ;)

From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net
[mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Lincoln Dale
Sent: Thursday, 14 June 2012 11:58 AM
To: David Hughes
Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Vocus cable photos

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 11:25 AM, David Hughes <David at hughes.com.au>
wrote:

Awesome stuff James!   I wonder if there was a commercial
justification for this or if it was just to get better bandwidth into
the Vocus office in North Sydney  :-)

If I were into betting, my money would be a few folks that care about
every microsecond and want the most direct fiber path from the CBD to a
certain facility in Gore Hill ...

cheers,

lincoln.

_______________________________________________
AusNOG mailing list
AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog

-- 
Regards,
Jason Leschnik.

[m] 0432 35 4224

[w@] jason dot leschnik <at> ansto dot gov dot au
<mailto:jason.leschnik at ansto.gov.au> 

[U@] jml974 at uow.edu.au

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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:40:21 +1000
From: Christopher Pilgrim <chris at pilgrim.net.au>
To: Lincoln Dale <ltd at aristanetworks.com>
Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Vocus Harbour Crossing
Message-ID:
<CAAy8bMTa-dkbHrF3s1UQaKagbv6HTdxX-R=n8qgj3VO2p4AL4A at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Lincoln Dale <ltd at aristanetworks.com>wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Christopher Pilgrim <
> chris at pilgrim.net.au> wrote:
>
>> Measuring the latency across the harbour is hardly relevant.
>
>
> Dare I suggest it, but the fact that this is being put in by Vocus means
> that there probably is at least someone with money who think it is relevant.
>
>
>>
>> The lowest latency between the ASX at Gore Hill and major finance
>> buildings (say 2 Chifley Sq, Governor Phillip Tower, AMP Building for
>> example) will always be through the harbour tunnel, and you could even
>> argue that the lowest latency from the ASX to Global Switch is still via
>> the bridge by the time you take into account the network either side of the
>> actual harbour crossing.
>>
>
> Not sure I follow you.  All I'd expect either side of the actual harbour
> is a splice and no pesky conversion from photons to electrons let alone
> anything above layer 1.
>

Correct - so where you pull your cable up from the harbour, and the path it
takes back into the broader network compared to alternate paths, is
completely relevant. You may have a short path across the harbour, but if
the cable has to run another 600 meters in an indirect path either side to
get back to the nearest joint, it adds latency (not saying this is the
case, by the way).

>
>
>> There is some demand for low latency circuits between ASX Gore Hill and
>> Chi-X at Equinix SY1, but as Chi-X currently account for only  2-3% of
>> trading volume in Australia (at the moment anyway) I'm not sure how much
>> demand there will actually be.
>>
>
> Arbitrage is only part of the equation and as you state not as relevant in
> the Australian industry at this point in time. In reality, arbitrage can't
> really be that useful in Australia as the rules state that market orders
> must be met at the lowest price between Chi-X and ASX anyway.
>

Agree. hence limited demand for low latency services between ASX and Chi-X.
The only real demand at the moment is low latency to the ASX, and those
that want that will simply telehouse at the ASX's facility and connect
directly to the market. That said, the rules are changing all the time as
ASIC get more comfortable with the whole dual market arrangement.

>
>
> On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Ankur Puri <Ankur.Puri at au.ntt.com>wrote:
>
>>  Someone has been reading the news and CommsDay! J
>>
>
> i hadn't, actually. Just knew the geography and demands of certain
> customers very very well. :)
>
>
> cheers,
>
> lincoln.
>
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 02:29:38 +0000
From: Stuart Wilson <stuart at endace.com>
To: Lincoln Dale <ltd at aristanetworks.com>, David Hughes
<David at hughes.com.au>
Cc: "ausnog at ausnog.net" <ausnog at ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Vocus cable photos
Message-ID: <CBFFA012.7C723%stuart at endace.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Interesting.

We worked with several HFT (High Frequency Traders) in the US and they will "sell their grandmothers left arm for a uSec".  It turns out that in the HFT world, speed of transaction is much more significant than trading algorithm, and a uSec counts.

Spread Networks www.spreadnetworks.com setup a direct cable run between NYC and Chicago, spent a fortune on the installation (reportedly US$300m) which was a dedicated trench (literally) as line of sight rather than tracing all the small POPs in a zig-zag, 825 fibre miles, 13.1 mSec, shaving a (reputedly) 1.5 mSec off the flight time.

Also, take a look at McKay www.mckay-brothers.com who are proposing a microwave path (air is twice as fast as glass).  Has anyone starting setting up dedicated uWave across the harbor yet ?

The HFT guys will drive some interesting behavior in the Australian carrier market.

Stuart at endace.com

From: Lincoln Dale <ltd at aristanetworks.com<mailto:ltd at aristanetworks.com>>
Date: Thursday, 14 June 2012 1:57 PM
To: David Hughes <David at hughes.com.au<mailto:David at hughes.com.au>>
Cc: <ausnog at ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at ausnog.net>>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Vocus cable photos

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 11:25 AM, David Hughes <David at hughes.com.au<mailto:David at hughes.com.au>> wrote:
Awesome stuff James!   I wonder if there was a commercial justification for this or if it was just to get better bandwidth into the Vocus office in North Sydney  :-)

If I were into betting, my money would be a few folks that care about every microsecond and want the most direct fiber path from the CBD to a certain facility in Gore Hill ...

cheers,

lincoln.

power to see all

This email (including any attachments) is intended to be read by the named recipient(s) only. If the email wasn't addressed to you, you mustn't use, distribute or copy any part of it. If you've received it in error please delete it (along with any attachments) and inform us of the error. Emails aren't secure and can't be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed. It's your responsibility to check this email and any attachments for viruses. These risks are deemed accepted by everyone that communicates with us by email.

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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:45:04 +1000
From: Alex West <alex.west at vocus.com.au>
To: Christopher Pilgrim <chris at pilgrim.net.au>
Cc: "ausnog at ausnog.net" <ausnog at ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Vocus Harbour Crossing
Message-ID: <4BC73F92-0B48-42A9-8DFE-CE0FB590EE7D at vocus.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Chris,

The network either side of the Harbour leaves and arrives at the same point along the  , however the underwater section heads directly across the harbour and doesn't double back to get up onto the bridge.

Also it would be a very weak argument to say that the tunnel was 

Sent from my iPhone

On 14/06/2012, at 12:04 PM, Christopher Pilgrim <chris at pilgrim.net.au> wrote:

> Measuring the latency across the harbour is hardly relevant.
> 
> The lowest latency between the ASX at Gore Hill and major finance buildings (say 2 Chifley Sq, Governor Phillip Tower, AMP Building for example) will always be through the harbour tunnel, and you could even argue that the lowest latency from the ASX to Global Switch is still via the bridge by the time you take into account the network either side of the actual harbour crossing.
> 
> There is some demand for low latency circuits between ASX Gore Hill and Chi-X at Equinix SY1, but as Chi-X currently account for only  2-3% of trading volume in Australia (at the moment anyway) I'm not sure how much demand there will actually be.
> 
> That said, good work - can't wait to see the actual specs once it's connected up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 9:57 AM, James Spenceley <james at vocus.com.au> wrote:
> Noggers,
> 
> As you may or may not be aware, Vocus is running a fibre cable (literally) across Sydney Harbour tomorrow. We are throwing an event at Ripples restaurant at Milson's point which will have a great view of the cable ship and divers as well as being about 20 meters from where the cable comes ashore. 
> 
> We've got 5 spots for Noggers for the lunch, If you'd like to come first in best dressed with an email back to me :-)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> --
> James
> 
> <Vocus_Harbour_Crossing_Invitation_Small.jpeg>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> AusNOG mailing list
> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> AusNOG mailing list
> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:48:13 +1000
From: Paul Brooks <pbrooks-ausnog at layer10.com.au>
To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Vocus Harbour Crossing
Message-ID: <4FD950ED.2070805 at layer10.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 14/06/2012 12:04 PM, Christopher Pilgrim wrote:
> Measuring the latency across the harbour is hardly relevant.
>
> The lowest latency between the ASX at Gore Hill and major finance buildings (say 2
> Chifley Sq, Governor Phillip Tower, AMP Building for example) will always be through
> the harbour tunnel, and you could even argue that the lowest latency from the ASX to
> Global Switch is still via the bridge by the time you take into account the network
> either side of the actual harbour crossing.

Actually, the lowest latency between the CBD and Gore Hill is surely by microwave,
with the signals travelling 50% faster through air  than light-in-glass!>
In any case its a cool initiative, providing a redundant link to the existing cable
through the Harbour Tunnel.

Congratulations James and Alex, and thanks for the photos.

Paul.

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:52:12 +1000
From: Alex West <alex.west at vocus.com.au>
To: Alex West <alex.west at vocus.com.au>
Cc: "ausnog at ausnog.net" <ausnog at ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Vocus Harbour Crossing
Message-ID: <F827F644-4DE9-4C9D-B2E8-E86AC052B15A at vocus.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Continuing on.

The tunnel would be a longer path from global switch once you have to traverse the CBD to get the the start point. 

Sent from my iPhone

On 14/06/2012, at 12:45 PM, Alex West <alex.west at vocus.com.au> wrote:

> Chris,
> 
> The network either side of the Harbour leaves and arrives at the same point along the  , however the underwater section heads directly across the harbour and doesn't double back to get up onto the bridge.
> 
> Also it would be a very weak argument to say that the tunnel was 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 14/06/2012, at 12:04 PM, Christopher Pilgrim <chris at pilgrim.net.au> wrote:
> 
>> Measuring the latency across the harbour is hardly relevant.
>> 
>> The lowest latency between the ASX at Gore Hill and major finance buildings (say 2 Chifley Sq, Governor Phillip Tower, AMP Building for example) will always be through the harbour tunnel, and you could even argue that the lowest latency from the ASX to Global Switch is still via the bridge by the time you take into account the network either side of the actual harbour crossing.
>> 
>> There is some demand for low latency circuits between ASX Gore Hill and Chi-X at Equinix SY1, but as Chi-X currently account for only  2-3% of trading volume in Australia (at the moment anyway) I'm not sure how much demand there will actually be.
>> 
>> That said, good work - can't wait to see the actual specs once it's connected up.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 9:57 AM, James Spenceley <james at vocus.com.au> wrote:
>> Noggers,
>> 
>> As you may or may not be aware, Vocus is running a fibre cable (literally) across Sydney Harbour tomorrow. We are throwing an event at Ripples restaurant at Milson's point which will have a great view of the cable ship and divers as well as being about 20 meters from where the cable comes ashore. 
>> 
>> We've got 5 spots for Noggers for the lunch, If you'd like to come first in best dressed with an email back to me :-)
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> --
>> James
>> 
>> <Vocus_Harbour_Crossing_Invitation_Small.jpeg>
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> AusNOG mailing list
>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> AusNOG mailing list
>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
> _______________________________________________
> AusNOG mailing list
> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
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End of AusNOG Digest, Vol 4, Issue 33
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