[AusNOG] Govt wants ISPs to record user history

george at piatta.com george at piatta.com
Tue Sep 7 13:59:14 EST 2010 

Quoting Vitaly Osipov <vitaly.osipov at gmail.com>:

>> fact that the govt. wants the histories kept. At the end of the day a
>> VPN connection to another country would fix all these anti-trust issues.
>
> ... Or anyone using a VPN will have to obtain a permit for it... or be
> simply considered suspicious. This is a well known technique - when
> you are monitoring massive networks, simply the fact that someone uses
> encryption where they "should not" raises a flag, then you do a link
> analysis and voila, you arrest terrorists in your own backyard. I
> guess.

Or use a "pre-approved" (easily breakable) set of algorithms that can  
only be used in this country.

Sounds similar to a country we all know of, that dictate similar  
policies to its internet users and content providers.

Regards,
George
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Vitaly
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 1:33 PM, James Troy (PageUp/AU/VIC)
> <jamest at pageuppeople.com> wrote:
>> That link is broken now, but I find it interesting that firstly the
>> govt. wants the filtering at the ISP level and not @ the international
>> link level, which would make a lot more sense given an takedown notice
>> can be issued for a site in Australia, but it certainly leads up to the
>> fact that the govt. wants the histories kept. At the end of the day a
>> VPN connection to another country would fix all these anti-trust issues.
>>
>> James Troy
>> System / Network administrator
>> P: +613 8677 3735
>> F: +613 9923 6112
>> W: www.pageuppeople.com
>> Level 10, 91 William Street
>> Melbourne VIC 3000 Australia
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>>  PageUp People
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>>
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>>
>>  people on the same page
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net
>> [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Bevan Slattery
>> Sent: Tuesday, 7 September 2010 1:22 PM
>> To: ausnog at ausnog.net
>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Govt wants ISPs to record user history
>>
>> Sorry to be rather active on the list lately but from the AFP today:
>>
>> http://www.zdnet.com.au/afp-pressuring-govt-on-data-retention-339305836.
>> htm
>>
>> "AFP assistant commissioner and national manager of high tech crime
>> operations, Neil Gaughan, said that the police is pushing for data
>> retention through the Attorney-General's office and Commonwealth
>> Government agencies.
>>
>> "It is important that we have the ability to retain the data," Gaughan
>> told reporters in Sydney today. "We can obtain intercepts ... on pretty
>> much everything. We don't want to see what people are watching on TV, we
>> want to see what people are looking at on the internet."
>>
>> He said this includes web searches and histories."
>>
>> [b]
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net [mailto:ausnog-
>>> bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Bevan Slattery
>>> Sent: Friday, 11 June 2010 3:18 PM
>>> To: Richard Bayliss; Tom Wright
>>> Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net
>>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Govt wants ISPs to record user history
>>>
>>> Richard,
>>>
>>> Forget the EC Directive.
>>>
>>> Be very, very concerned by the amount/type of information and the
>> length
>>> of time of retention that is being discussed here in Australia.  Be
>>> very, very concerned.  Participation is by a closed group and the
>>> contents are generally confidential.  Confidentiality is required as
>> the
>>> public would be aghast in horror with what is being suggested.
>> Certain
>>> agencies are particularly excited about a phrase called "intelligence
>>> led policing".  Meaning that it would be helpful for certain agencies
>> to
>>> use this information to create known associates and personal profiles
>>> using any information stored/retained by ISP's/CSP's in case it's
>>> necessary for a *future* crime and/or investigation.
>>>
>>> A further gross erosion of our privacy rights all in the name of
>>> protecting us from "terrorism and paedophiles".  Where have I heard
>> that
>>> before?  Oh yeah.  That's right.  Nearly forgot.
>>>
>>> If you are a member of the IIA, I would strongly encourage you to
>>> contact them for further information.
>>>
>>> Just so we are clear:
>>>
>>> - Propose to implement Government filtering system which checks every
>>> URL entered by every Australian
>>> - Propose to implement Government Data Retention system for all ISP's
>> to
>>> maintain substantial information about user internet and communication
>>
>>> history (including browsing history and emails for MANY years)
>>> - Propose to implement single NBN
>>> - Remove Government funding for AusCERT and establish Government run
>>> CERT
>>>
>>> Can't wait for the "Ministry of Truth"
>>> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Truth) to be formed.  Or
>>> perhaps it will be called the "Minstry of anti-bunkum and balderdash"
>>> (http://tinyurl.com/38xj64s).
>>>
>>> [b]
>>>
>>> PS:  Media do not call or email and do not quote in accordance with
>> the
>>> list Charter.
>>>
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net
>>> > [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Richard
>> Bayliss
>>> > Sent: Friday, 11 June 2010 2:23 PM
>>> > To: Tom Wright
>>> > Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net
>>> > Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Govt wants ISPs to record user history
>>> >
>>> > I'm no lawyer, but I did have a look at the EC directive which was
>>> > mentioned in the zdnet article.
>>> >
>>> > There seemed to be several protections for service providers built
>>> > into the document:
>>> >
>>> > "(23) Given that the obligations on providers of electronic
>>> > communications services should be proportionate, this Directive
>>> > requires that they retain only such data as are generated or
>>> > processed in the process of supplying their communications services.
>>
>>> > To the extent that such data are not generated or processed by those
>>
>>> > providers, there is no obligation to retain them. This Directive is
>>> > not intended to harmonise the technology for retaining data, the
>>> > choice of which is a matter to be resolved at national level.
>>> >
>>> > [..]
>>> >
>>> > "Art 1, 2. This Directive shall apply to traffic and location data
>>> > on both legal entities and natural persons and to the related data
>>> > necessary to identify the subscriber or registered user. It shall
>>> > not apply to the content of electronic communications, including
>>> > information consulted using an electronic communications network.
>>> >
>>> > [..]
>>> >
>>> > "Art 5, 2. No data revealing the content of the communication may be
>>
>>> > retained pursuant to this Directive."
>>> >
>>> > (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:20
>>> 06:105:0054:0063:EN:PDF)
>>> >
>>> > I would assume that the Australian industry would highlight the need
>>
>>> > for something similar in anything proposed by the
>> government.
>>> >
>>> > Cheers
>>> > Rich
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 11/06/2010, at 2:09 PM, Tom Wright wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I acknowledge the IIA's suggestion to "engage not only with the
>>> > industry..." - but I find that notion particularly hard to take
>>> > seriously.
>>> >
>>> > Looking back over the government's track record of 'engaging'
>>> > with our industry would suggest that they'll be quick to censor any
>>> > dissenters and alienate everyone in the process.
>>> >
>>> > ... and then just to show their support, they'll notionally withdraw
>>
>>> > support for one of the successful gems of the IT industry in favour
>>> > of an expensive, bureaucratic monolith.
>>> >
>>> > Have the ALP lost their minds?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -- Tom
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 11/06/2010, at 12:56 PM, Brad Gould wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Of course if they were serious about stopping all the "bad stuff"
>>> > > they'll introduce the same legislation to apply to snail mail and
>>> > > telephone calls.
>>> > >
>>> > > /end snark
>>> > >
>>> > > Its clearly unacceptable.  And technically infeasible.
>>> > What sort of
>>> > > labour think tank and focus groups are ok with these ideas?
>>> >  The mind
>>> > > boggles.
>>> > >
>>> > > Brad
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > On 11/06/2010 12:27, Peter Childs wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> If they really want this stuff why don't they just ask
>>> > google...  sheesh...
>>> > >>
>>> > >> On 11/06/2010, at 12:24 PM, Arkady Gundroff wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >>> Makes me wonder who will wear the cost of retaining said
>>> > data, let alone making the API and paying for the interconnects to
>>> > the BigBr^H^H^H^H^H government.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> -----Original Message-----
>>> > >>> From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net
>>> > >>> [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Sean K.
>> Finn
>>> > >>> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:50 PM
>>> > >>> To: 'Rob Byrnes'; 'ausnog at ausnog.net'
>>> > >>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Govt wants ISPs to record user history
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Next they'll want an API so they can interact with the
>>> > records and change them as necessary...
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> I wonder if that's the next step.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> -----Original Message-----
>>> > >>> From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net
>>> > >>> [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Rob Byrnes
>>> > >>> Sent: Friday, 11 June 2010 12:45 PM
>>> > >>> To: ausnog at ausnog.net
>>> > >>> Subject: [AusNOG] Govt wants ISPs to record user history
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > http://www.zdnet.com.au/govt-wants-isps-to-record-user-data-33930378
>>> > >>> 5.htm
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Not only will there be a firewall to contend with, but possibly
>> a
>>> > >>> data retention policy ... where's that book I was reading ... by
>>
>>> > >>> some bloke called Orwell.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Any members of this list been contacted for "discussion"?
>>> > >>>
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > > Brad Gould, Network Engineer
>>> > > Internode
>>> > > PO Box 284, Rundle Mall 5000
>>> > > Level 5, 162 Grenfell Street, Adelaide 5000
>>> > > P: 08 8228 2999  F: 08 8235 6999
>>> > > bradley at internode.com.au; http://www.internode.on.net/
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > AusNOG mailing list
>>> > > AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>>> > > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Kind Regards,
>>> >
>>> > Tom Wright
>>> > Internode Network Operations
>>> > P: +61 8 8228 2999
>>> > W: http://www.internode.on.net
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > AusNOG mailing list
>>> > AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>>> > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
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