[AusNOG] Fwd: Govt wants ISPs to record user history

Tue Sep 7 14:04:28 EST 2010

Even simpler, after the great Australian firewall is in place, they
can keep a whitelist of approved foreign VPN endpoints. There is a
huge chance that the technology won't cope... a DPI for the whole of
Aussie international traffic is a bit tough, but not impossible.

Let's face it, China's is the only model where the govt actually
controls what comes in and out, all short of that simply won't work.

Also on privacy -
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565 "'I've Got
Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy"  - Daniel J.
Solove George Washington University Law School

Regards,
Vitaly

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 1:59 PM,  <george at piatta.com> wrote:
> Quoting Vitaly Osipov <vitaly.osipov at gmail.com>:
>
>>> fact that the govt. wants the histories kept. At the end of the day a
>>> VPN connection to another country would fix all these anti-trust issues.
>>
>> ... Or anyone using a VPN will have to obtain a permit for it... or be
>> simply considered suspicious. This is a well known technique - when
>> you are monitoring massive networks, simply the fact that someone uses
>> encryption where they "should not" raises a flag, then you do a link
>> analysis and voila, you arrest terrorists in your own backyard. I
>> guess.
>
> Or use a "pre-approved" (easily breakable) set of algorithms that can only
> be used in this country.
>
> Sounds similar to a country we all know of, that dictate similar policies to
> its internet users and content providers.
>
> Regards,
> George
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Vitaly
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 1:33 PM, James Troy (PageUp/AU/VIC)
>> <jamest at pageuppeople.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> That link is broken now, but I find it interesting that firstly the
>>> govt. wants the filtering at the ISP level and not @ the international
>>> link level, which would make a lot more sense given an takedown notice
>>> can be issued for a site in Australia, but it certainly leads up to the
>>> fact that the govt. wants the histories kept. At the end of the day a
>>> VPN connection to another country would fix all these anti-trust issues.
>>>
>>> James Troy
>>> System / Network administrator
>>> P: +613 8677 3735
>>> F: +613 9923 6112
>>> W: www.pageuppeople.com
>>> Level 10, 91 William Street
>>> Melbourne VIC 3000 Australia
>>> Retain  Recruit  Perform  Develop
>>>  PageUp People
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  people on the same page
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net
>>> [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Bevan Slattery
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 7 September 2010 1:22 PM
>>> To: ausnog at ausnog.net
>>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Govt wants ISPs to record user history
>>>
>>> Sorry to be rather active on the list lately but from the AFP today:
>>>
>>> http://www.zdnet.com.au/afp-pressuring-govt-on-data-retention-339305836.
>>> htm
>>>
>>> "AFP assistant commissioner and national manager of high tech crime
>>> operations, Neil Gaughan, said that the police is pushing for data
>>> retention through the Attorney-General's office and Commonwealth
>>> Government agencies.
>>>
>>> "It is important that we have the ability to retain the data," Gaughan
>>> told reporters in Sydney today. "We can obtain intercepts ... on pretty
>>> much everything. We don't want to see what people are watching on TV, we
>>> want to see what people are looking at on the internet."
>>>
>>> He said this includes web searches and histories."
>>>
>>> [b]
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net [mailto:ausnog-
>>>> bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Bevan Slattery
>>>> Sent: Friday, 11 June 2010 3:18 PM
>>>> To: Richard Bayliss; Tom Wright
>>>> Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net
>>>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Govt wants ISPs to record user history
>>>>
>>>> Richard,
>>>>
>>>> Forget the EC Directive.
>>>>
>>>> Be very, very concerned by the amount/type of information and the
>>>
>>> length
>>>>
>>>> of time of retention that is being discussed here in Australia.  Be
>>>> very, very concerned.  Participation is by a closed group and the
>>>> contents are generally confidential.  Confidentiality is required as
>>>
>>> the
>>>>
>>>> public would be aghast in horror with what is being suggested.
>>>
>>> Certain
>>>>
>>>> agencies are particularly excited about a phrase called "intelligence
>>>> led policing".  Meaning that it would be helpful for certain agencies
>>>
>>> to
>>>>
>>>> use this information to create known associates and personal profiles
>>>> using any information stored/retained by ISP's/CSP's in case it's
>>>> necessary for a *future* crime and/or investigation.
>>>>
>>>> A further gross erosion of our privacy rights all in the name of
>>>> protecting us from "terrorism and paedophiles".  Where have I heard
>>>
>>> that
>>>>
>>>> before?  Oh yeah.  That's right.  Nearly forgot.
>>>>
>>>> If you are a member of the IIA, I would strongly encourage you to
>>>> contact them for further information.
>>>>
>>>> Just so we are clear:
>>>>
>>>> - Propose to implement Government filtering system which checks every
>>>> URL entered by every Australian
>>>> - Propose to implement Government Data Retention system for all ISP's
>>>
>>> to
>>>>
>>>> maintain substantial information about user internet and communication
>>>
>>>> history (including browsing history and emails for MANY years)
>>>> - Propose to implement single NBN
>>>> - Remove Government funding for AusCERT and establish Government run
>>>> CERT
>>>>
>>>> Can't wait for the "Ministry of Truth"
>>>> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Truth) to be formed.  Or
>>>> perhaps it will be called the "Minstry of anti-bunkum and balderdash"
>>>> (http://tinyurl.com/38xj64s).
>>>>
>>>> [b]
>>>>
>>>> PS:  Media do not call or email and do not quote in accordance with
>>>
>>> the
>>>>
>>>> list Charter.
>>>>
>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>> > From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net
>>>> > [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Richard
>>>
>>> Bayliss
>>>>
>>>> > Sent: Friday, 11 June 2010 2:23 PM
>>>> > To: Tom Wright
>>>> > Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net
>>>> > Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Govt wants ISPs to record user history
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm no lawyer, but I did have a look at the EC directive which was
>>>> > mentioned in the zdnet article.
>>>> >
>>>> > There seemed to be several protections for service providers built
>>>> > into the document:
>>>> >
>>>> > "(23) Given that the obligations on providers of electronic
>>>> > communications services should be proportionate, this Directive
>>>> > requires that they retain only such data as are generated or
>>>> > processed in the process of supplying their communications services.
>>>
>>>> > To the extent that such data are not generated or processed by those
>>>
>>>> > providers, there is no obligation to retain them. This Directive is
>>>> > not intended to harmonise the technology for retaining data, the
>>>> > choice of which is a matter to be resolved at national level.
>>>> >
>>>> > [..]
>>>> >
>>>> > "Art 1, 2. This Directive shall apply to traffic and location data
>>>> > on both legal entities and natural persons and to the related data
>>>> > necessary to identify the subscriber or registered user. It shall
>>>> > not apply to the content of electronic communications, including
>>>> > information consulted using an electronic communications network.
>>>> >
>>>> > [..]
>>>> >
>>>> > "Art 5, 2. No data revealing the content of the communication may be
>>>
>>>> > retained pursuant to this Directive."
>>>> >
>>>> > (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:20
>>>> 06:105:0054:0063:EN:PDF)
>>>> >
>>>> > I would assume that the Australian industry would highlight the need
>>>
>>>> > for something similar in anything proposed by the
>>>
>>> government.
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > Cheers
>>>> > Rich
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On 11/06/2010, at 2:09 PM, Tom Wright wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > I acknowledge the IIA's suggestion to "engage not only with the
>>>> > industry..." - but I find that notion particularly hard to take
>>>> > seriously.
>>>> >
>>>> > Looking back over the government's track record of 'engaging'
>>>> > with our industry would suggest that they'll be quick to censor any
>>>> > dissenters and alienate everyone in the process.
>>>> >
>>>> > ... and then just to show their support, they'll notionally withdraw
>>>
>>>> > support for one of the successful gems of the IT industry in favour
>>>> > of an expensive, bureaucratic monolith.
>>>> >
>>>> > Have the ALP lost their minds?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > -- Tom
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On 11/06/2010, at 12:56 PM, Brad Gould wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > Of course if they were serious about stopping all the "bad stuff"
>>>> > > they'll introduce the same legislation to apply to snail mail and
>>>> > > telephone calls.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > /end snark
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Its clearly unacceptable.  And technically infeasible.
>>>> > What sort of
>>>> > > labour think tank and focus groups are ok with these ideas?
>>>> >  The mind
>>>> > > boggles.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Brad
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > On 11/06/2010 12:27, Peter Childs wrote:
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> If they really want this stuff why don't they just ask
>>>> > google...  sheesh...
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> On 11/06/2010, at 12:24 PM, Arkady Gundroff wrote:
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >>> Makes me wonder who will wear the cost of retaining said
>>>> > data, let alone making the API and paying for the interconnects to
>>>> > the BigBr^H^H^H^H^H government.
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> > >>> From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net
>>>> > >>> [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Sean K.
>>>
>>> Finn
>>>>
>>>> > >>> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:50 PM
>>>> > >>> To: 'Rob Byrnes'; 'ausnog at ausnog.net'
>>>> > >>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Govt wants ISPs to record user history
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> Next they'll want an API so they can interact with the
>>>> > records and change them as necessary...
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> I wonder if that's the next step.
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> > >>> From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net
>>>> > >>> [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Rob Byrnes
>>>> > >>> Sent: Friday, 11 June 2010 12:45 PM
>>>> > >>> To: ausnog at ausnog.net
>>>> > >>> Subject: [AusNOG] Govt wants ISPs to record user history
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > http://www.zdnet.com.au/govt-wants-isps-to-record-user-data-33930378
>>>> > >>> 5.htm
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> Not only will there be a firewall to contend with, but possibly
>>>
>>> a
>>>>
>>>> > >>> data retention policy ... where's that book I was reading ... by
>>>
>>>> > >>> some bloke called Orwell.
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> Any members of this list been contacted for "discussion"?
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >
>>>> > > --
>>>> > > Brad Gould, Network Engineer
>>>> > > Internode
>>>> > > PO Box 284, Rundle Mall 5000
>>>> > > Level 5, 162 Grenfell Street, Adelaide 5000
>>>> > > P: 08 8228 2999  F: 08 8235 6999
>>>> > > bradley at internode.com.au; http://www.internode.on.net/
>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>>> > > AusNOG mailing list
>>>> > > AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>>>> > > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Kind Regards,
>>>> >
>>>> > Tom Wright
>>>> > Internode Network Operations
>>>> > P: +61 8 8228 2999
>>>> > W: http://www.internode.on.net
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > AusNOG mailing list
>>>> > AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>>>> > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>> >
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