[AusNOG] Inappropriate commercially sensitive discussion threads on AusNOG mailing list

[Skeeve Stevens]

Kevin,

This was an operational issue.  An ISP who had disconnected a customer for a billing dispute (not the issue here) then proceeded to announce prefixes from their AS that they were not entitled to do so.  My post to the list was to ask advice of others in the community on what else they would do to resolve the situation.

This is EXACTLY what AUSNOG is for.

The third parties which were mentioned were transit providers and again, are openly discussed on this list - they were also not mentioned in a negative light, and indeed they directly offered their assistance in the situation.

It was a commercial matter, but complex, no... it was a discussion about method on how to get a provider to stop announcing ranges they should not be.

I think the post was exactly in-line with the charter of this list and if you have a problem with that I suggest you raise it with the list managers for clarification.

This list is for Network Operators and those interested in it to communicate with each other... in whatever form that may take - technical, perhaps commercial advice (not selling), and perhaps legal discussion (not legal advice) - i.e. I've been hacked by so and so, what now.

My post received all these sort of responses, both public and many private, all of which were helpful in the resolution to the issue.

...Skeeve

--
Skeeve Stevens, CEO
eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists
skeeve at eintellego.net / www.eintellego.net
Phone: 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954
Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 / skype://skeeve
www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve ; facebook.com/eintellego
--
eintellego - The Experts that the Experts call
- Juniper - HP Networking - Cisco - Brocade - Arista - Allied Telesis


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net [mailto:ausnog-
> bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Kevin Karp
> Sent: Saturday, 13 November 2010 8:12 AM
> To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
> Subject: [AusNOG] Inappropriate commercially sensitive discussion threads
> on AusNOG mailing list
> 
> AusNOG'ers
> 
> I was disturbed to read this Saturday morning a discussion thread that
> occurred on the AusNOG mailing list yesterday afternoon concerning the
> actions of parties involved in a commercial dispute involving ISP's and
> upstream transit providers.
> 
> The source of my concerns are:
> 
> 1. The discussion was devoid of any technical merit or consequence
> 2. The thread involved a matter that was of a purely commercial and
> legal nature between the parties involved
> 3. The names of apparently innocent third party organisations were
> brought into the thread for no apparent reason or benefit
> 4. The discussion could only present one side of what may be a complex
> commercial matter
> 5. The act of posting the item on the AusNOG mailing list may have
> consequences for all of those that participate on the AusNOG mailing
> list even to the level of passive subscribers who did not actually
> contribute to the thread.
> 6. Sufficient information may have been divulged to identify individual
> parties involved in the dispute so representing breaches of
> confidentiality at many different levels (client-ISP, outsourcer-client
> etc)
> 7. No indication as to what authority or in what role the originating
> poster had in raising the topic
> 
> My reading of the AusNOG list charter is such that discussion threads of
> this type would be in breach of that charter. In particular the charter
> states:
> 
> "The AusNOG mailing list has been established to provide a forum for
>     the exchange of technical information, the discussion of specific
>     implementation issues that require cooperation among network service
>     providers, the discussion of operational issues, and the discussion  of
>     technical issues directly relating to the internet service provision
>     and telecommunications industry."
> 
> For instance, I don't believe that "operational issues" is meant to
> cover commercial and legal issues.
> 
> The charter further states that the list "is NOT a forum for...
> end-users to pester their ISP".
> 
> Could managers of the list please advise if the thread is to be honoured
> in the list archives and if discussion threads of this type are going to
> be permitted to occur again in the future?
> 
> The response of the list managers will be a prompt for me to consider my
> continued subscription to the AusNOG mailing list.
> 
> Thank you for your consideration of this matter.
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> Kevin Karp
> PPS Internet
> e: kjkarp at pps.com.au
> _______________________________________________
> AusNOG mailing list
> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog