[AusNOG] NBNCo releases its response to industry consultation

Thu Mar 25 17:11:08 EST 2010

I wasn't indicating that was the case, I'm simply highlighting it as a consideration and an example of how our two environments are vastly different.

I'm not saying PtP doesn't have merit, it obviously does-- but I don't see the benefit outweighing the cost and it would appear NBN Co and a majority of the respondents agree.

On 25/03/2010, at 2:03 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote:

> So what, for the places in Australia where the density is approaching or exceeds
> that, you should still deploy exactly the same physical infrastructure as to the
> population-sparse areas?
> 
> Using the population density number alone as a dictator of the sole carriage/
> access method is silly. :)
> 
> 
> 
> Adrian
> 
> (Oh wait, I'm not even in this playing field anymore...)
> 
> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010, Shane Short wrote:
>> As already pointed out, the cost to provide such a service would be extremely prohibitive-- I personally thing GPON was the only real, sensible solution, especially given that most of the opposition to the NBN seems to be cost related.
>> 
>> There's no real point comparing australia to most other FTTx deployments in the world, our vastness and population density makes things much, much harder-- Poking around Wolfram Alpha, it turns out that The Netherlands (the entire country) is about half the size of Victoria alone and the population density is 488 people/km^2, where-as Australia is 2.77 people/km^2.
>> 
>> -Shane
>> 
>> On 25/03/2010, at 1:41 PM, Curtis Bayne wrote:
>> 
>>> A commitment to a P2P network is one way to ENSURE open access is an option.
>>> 
>>> DWDM over existing OF to exchanges = wavelengths between any two points in the same city for peanuts. Private, layer 2 networks between groups of people are possible without AGVC costs. 1Gbps drops to teleworkers - imagine the ability to build highly diverse private cloud infrastructure by dropping elastic compute nodes into your employees houses. No VPN. Total control. Out there, but not unachievable with this architecture.
>>> 
>>> Perhaps you could use that old 155meg ATM gear you scabbed from work that sits in your garage/bits box doing nothing for a private link to your mum's house - the possibilities here are endless!
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net on behalf of Matthew Moyle-Croft
>>> Sent: Thu 3/25/2010 3:17 PM
>>> To: Bryn Loftus
>>> Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net
>>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NBNCo releases its response to industry consultation
>>> 
>>> It's worth noting a few things about the Amsterdam experience:
>>> 
>>> Their AVERAGE distance per service was 3 metres - 120km for 40k services.  It's a fairly small geography they're building into which has a lot of MDUs.  Guarantee the distance in Oz is a lot longer.
>>> 
>>> It'd be nice to have a core or pair per house hold.  But not at any expense.
>>> 
>>> MMC
>>> 
>>> On 25/03/2010, at 3:08 PM, Bryn Loftus wrote:
>>> 
>>> This article (while very mainstream) has some interesting point on PON vs direct fibre- and some costs.
>>> 
>>> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/03/how-amsterdam-was-wired-for-open-access-fiber.ars
>>> 
>>> bryn
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 25/03/2010, at 3:23 PM, lists wrote:
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Dasmo" <dasmo at dasmo.net>
>>> To: <ausnog at ausnog.net>
>>> 
>>> Using PON is a bit short sighted.
>>> 
>>> Why is that?
>>> 
>>> It is power efficient ( less green house emmissions for the true believers)
>>> It can deliver 1Gb or more symentrical connections
>>> It can do L2 or L3
>>> 
>>> I often see the argument against PON but I rarely if ever see reasons why, I
>>> would be interested to see the reasons why
>>> 
>>> 
>>> If you're going to spend the money to roll out a nationwide network, you
>>> might as well only do it once.
>>> 
>>> The cost of  point to point would make an already dubious business plan even
>>> less affordable.
>>> 
>>> The biggest cost is not so much the cable as the duct access.  In brownfield
>>> deployments that can be very high.  $70 per meter is not out of the
>>> question.   Duct access at $6 to $8 per year can add up to.   If you put it
>>> on power poles then fine, but expect long delays when trucks trees and wind
>>> bring it down as will happen.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> regards
>>> 
>>> Tim
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> --
>>> Matthew Moyle-Croft
>>> Peering Manager and Team Lead - Commercial and DSLAMs
>>> Internode /Agile
>>> Level 5, 162 Grenfell Street, Adelaide, SA 5000 Australia
>>> Email: mmc at internode.com.au<mailto:mmc at internode.com.au>    Web: http://www.on.net<http://www.on.net/>
>>> Direct: +61-8-8228-2909      Mobile: +61-419-900-366
>>> Reception: +61-8-8228-2999        Fax: +61-8-8235-6909
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
> 
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