[AusNOG] Time for AusSOG I think (was Re: Happy Sysadminday)

[Mark Smith]

On Mon, 2 Aug 2010 11:30:07 +0930
Matthew Moyle-Croft <mmc at internode.com.au> wrote:

> I agree pretty much.
> 
> The artificial divide between those who move information and those who process it and store it is arbitrary and artificial.
> 
> Being successful in our industry is about integration - understanding and being successful in the art and science of taking all the components (software, systems, storage, networks, datacentres, commercial and legal) and building the best services.
> 
> The current "fad" of "cloud/utility/grid/whatever" is a shining example of this.
> 
> Pretty much everyone I know who's really good at this game is across all of the aspects above so that they can come up with the best balance/compromise to meet the needs of their company and users.
> 
> Look at this list, we discuss a who range of issues related to Internet networks, including legal (filtering, copyright), commercial (take overs), operational, etc.
> 

Yet we don't discuss best file systems to use, partition and
file system layouts, latest patches to OSes, whether or not to use
swap, how big swap should be (2 x RAM? Is that still valid?), should
you use RAID5 or RAID6, etc. That'd make AusNOG a sysadmin list too.

The AusNOG mailing list charter says the following (highlight mine)

  The AusNOG mailing list has been established to provide a forum for
   the exchange of technical information, the discussion of specific
   implementation issues that require cooperation among network service
   providers, the discussion of operational issues, and the discussion
  of technical issues *directly relating to the internet service
  provision and telecommunications industry.*


So either the posts about sysadmin day are off-topic, or the
mailing list charter should be changed.

(Personally I don't see why sysadmins need a special day. When I was
one in the 90s, we didn't, and we were quite happy with what we were
doing as a job, what we were being paid to do it and the recognition
we got for it (and we used to install off of floppy disk ...). I'd much
rather see a Doctors Day, a Nurses Day, or a Garbage Collectors Day.)

> I've always thought of myself as an "integrator".   I've got a 20 year background in "systems" (mainly unix), an academic background in software and more than 15 years of networking experience, tied together with an understanding of commercial, legal and other things (including being a presales engineer for a lot of it).
> 
> It's okay to be a specialist, but declaring yourself as "not one of those" means your not going to be good at understanding where your specialty fits in the big scheme of things.
> 
> MMC
> 
> 
> On 02/08/2010, at 10:07 AM, Narelle wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 1:18 PM, Mark Smith
> <nanog at 85d5b20a518b8f6864949bd940457dc124746ddc.nosense.org<mailto:nanog at 85d5b20a518b8f6864949bd940457dc124746ddc.nosense.org>> wrote:
> 
> What are sysadmins doing on a _network operator_ mailing list?
> 
> 
> Alright, I'll bite.
> 
> Over recent times I have seen a distinct divergence in the skill sets
> of competent network operators/engineers/admins that is IMHO less than
> helpful. People on the networking side have had somewhat of a fixation
> on routers, ethernet switches and some related gear (eg voice or
> transmission kit) to the detriment of the rest of the stuff that make
> networks work: DNS, NTP, crucial databases, radius, OSS, web and mail
> servers. These things are essential and most of the new network
> elements that gradually make their way as mainstream gear start their
> life as unix based systems, especially protocol gateways.
> 
> The first Juniper router I ever configured was running _unix_. Cisco's
> first ATM switch ran unix. In more recent times I've played with
> Session Border Controllers, DPI systems, IP voice switches - all on
> unix platforms. Not to mention the many firewalls in use.
> 
> Surely people still run DNS and GateD??
> 
> Time was the good network administrator was also a respectable
> sysadmin. I've met more than one netadmin in recent times that can't
> even find their way around a *nix file system.
> 
> I think this again runs to the important skills needed on the ground
> to run a network, as well as the nature of Best Practice in IP
> networking. SO please don't get me started on how this leads to a lack
> of understanding of protocols...
> 
> 
> --
> 
> 
> Narelle
> narellec at gmail.com<mailto:narellec at gmail.com>
> _______________________________________________
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> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
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> 
> --
> Matthew Moyle-Croft
> Peering Manager and Team Lead - Commercial and DSLAMs
> Internode /Agile
> Level 5, 162 Grenfell Street, Adelaide, SA 5000 Australia
> Email: mmc at internode.com.au<mailto:mmc at internode.com.au>    Web: http://www.on.net<http://www.on.net/>
> Direct: +61-8-8228-2909      Mobile: +61-419-900-366
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>