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<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.abc.net.au/news/justin/">https://www.abc.net.au/news/justin/</a></p>
<p>"<br>
</p>
<ul>
<li style="opacity: 1;">
<div class="ticker-type">Breaking news</div>
Prime Minister Scott Morrison proposes new laws to make it
easier to strip Australian citizenship from people convicted of
terrorism offences</li>
</ul>
<p>"</p>
<p>I saw the live on ABC news event. Scomo insisted on the Access
Bill being passed within the next 2 sitting weeks.....</p>
<p>I guess the Video of the press conf will make to the Internet
soon...<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 22/11/18 2:34 pm, Paul Wilkins
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMmROTJb_iGotmiQus9EFHsb_FWFX2yfGJE6=6q5zwXeqLYnWw@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><i>"it's going to our government"</i></div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
<div>Well actually no. Not since Wentworth. The government
can't pass bills without either Labor or the cross
benchers, so it's highly risorous the Home Affairs
Minister thinks this an opportune time to give the PJCIS
the hurry along.<i><br>
</i></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>He also presents himself and department as unanswerable
to the PJCHR, who go to volumes in their criticisms.<i><br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 at 10:43, Bradley Silverman
<<a href="mailto:bsilverman@staff.ventraip.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">bsilverman@staff.ventraip.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><i>"no thinking person" - </i>That's the
problem, it's not going to thinking people, it's going to
our government...<br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"
class="m_-5251849838322123878gmail_signature">
<table cellspacing="0px">
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alt="VentraIP Australia logo"
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height="55"></td>
<td style="padding-left:8px">
<p><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;line-height:1.5"><strong>Bradley
Silverman<br>
</strong>Technical Operations \\ VentraIP
Australia<br>
<strong>M: </strong>+61 418 641 103 | <strong>P:</strong> +61
3 9013 8464 | <a
href="https://ventraip.com.au/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ventraip.com.au</a></span></p>
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<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Nov 22, 2018 at 10:17 AM Paul Wilkins
<<a href="mailto:paulwilkins369@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">paulwilkins369@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I can't agree that whether the Bill passes at
this stage comes down to simple numbers along party
lines.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1 - The Bill is simply too far reaching in
consequences for parliament to wave it through. With
power comes responsibility. The Bill is attracting
huge condemnation internationally, and those
supporting the Bill risk looking like chumps. It's a
bit like global warming, no one who knows what
they're talking about thinks this is a good idea.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2 - The Department for Home Affairs put this Bill
together, and Dutton arrived at the tail end of the
process. Although he might like to distance himself
from the legislation, the buck ultimately stops with
him as he introduced and commended the Bill to the
House.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>3 - The Bill is more Trumpist than Liberal. Even
if it's bad law and bad for Liberal Democracy, it's
good politics for the Liberal Trumpists.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>4 - If Labor knocks it back in the Lower House, I
can't see it getting through without some sort of
deal being struck with one of the cross benchers.
Because no thinking person sees this Bill as a good
move, there will be no Lower House deal without a
serious quid pro quo. Then there would need to be
another deal in the Upper House, with differently
aligned cross benchers.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kind regards</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Paul Wilkins<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 at 22:44, Bryan
O'Reilly <<a
href="mailto:bryan@telcoindependent.com.au"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">bryan@telcoindependent.com.au</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple"
lang="EN-AU">
<div
class="m_-5251849838322123878m_6134971255723171421m_7139046650254784953WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Hi Paul,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I’m looking forward to
your Lunchtime Lecture next week on this
topic!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Kind
regards,<br>
<br>
Bryan O'Reilly<br>
Founder - Telco Independent Consulting<br>
<a
href="http://www.telcoindependent.com.au/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.telcoindependent.com.au</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">0419
632 098<br>
<br>
30+ years experience to provide YOUR
business with independent advice.</span></p>
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style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span></p>
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style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">LinkedIN;
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#a8a8a8">Important:<br>
This message may contain confidential or
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#a8a8a8">Any documents
or other information that may be in this
email is copyright © Telco Independent
Consulting 2018.</span><span
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> AusNOG <<a
href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Brooks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 21 November 2018
5:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Assistance
and Access Bill moves to PJCIS</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks Rob. <br>
In the latest, Dutton wants to speed up the
Bill and have it passed "next week", and has
apparently asked the PJCIS to cut short its
evaluation, according to reporting of an
interview on Sky News.<br>
<br>
<a
href="https://www.itnews.com.au/news/dutton-tries-to-speed-up-encryption-bill-515862"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Dutton
tries to speed up encryption bill</a><br>
<br>
(Point of clarification - that bit about smart
and dumb criminals was while trying to explain
the difference between a system having a
capability that can be used by the operator to
implement a "act or thing", and an operator
actually using that capability in a particular
instance against a particular target - and
that the existence of the capability isn't and
shouldn't be secret, even if the actual use in
response to a warrant was still kept a
secret. That distinction has been difficult
for the committee to understand without a
simple illustration.)<br>
<br>
<br>
Paul.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 21/11/2018 2:00 PM, Robert Hudson wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(Not necessarily a direct
response to Paul's email, just additional
data for the thread). </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Traditional media are
starting to pick this up, and they're just
parroting the govt position. Macquarie
Radio news at 8am ran a story on it this
morning, and it was all about Dutton
saying he wants the legislation passed
quickly so they can catch more terrorists.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Other than the point
well made by Paul Brooks that the only
criminals who will be caught by this are
the dumb ones (there was a link made
between this proposed legislation and
three potential terrorists were were
arrested - without this legislation in
place), and the smarter criminals (ie
those capable of tieing their own shoe
laces) will simply use software that is
not subject to the legislation, there is
an extension - to break the encryption
WILL involve creating vulnerabilities
(there's simply no way around this), and
those vulnerabilities will then be
available for criminals (the bar may be
higher than shoelaces, maybe they can
button their own shirts as well) to
exploit and compromise data that is
legitimately encrypted.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In summary - there is
no upside to this proposed legislation as
far as encryption goes, and there is a
significant potential downside.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It cannot be allowed to
pass.</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, 21 Nov. 2018,
12:09 pm Paul Wilkins <<a
href="mailto:paulwilkins369@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">paulwilkins369@gmail.com</a>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I'm
wondering when the other shoe will
drop that the Bill enables mass
collection and analysis of metadata
without any further legislation
needed. Or the implications that
metadata from multiple sources (phone
towers/CCTV/Social Media), lays the
foundations for the establishment of
the machinery of a police state. Of
course, this will make prosecution of
crime straightforward (the police will
only need to correlate crime against a
database of the public's electronic
fingerprints). However, such powerful
machinery can be used for oppressive
purposes, and the Bill is absent the
checks and balances consistent with
the traditions and institutions of
Liberal Democracy.<br>
<br>
If one were cynical you might think
the Bill's outrageous overreach is
deliberate, a Trumpist ploy to enrage
the unthinking. And when we see
critics of the Bill slandered for
being weak on terrorism, maybe not so
wide of the mark or so cynical.<br>
<br>
Kind regards<br>
<br>
Paul Wilkins</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, 21 Nov 2018
at 04:15, Scott Weeks <<a
href="mailto:surfer@mauigateway.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">surfer@mauigateway.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
On Tue, 20 Nov 2018 at 18:12,
Christian Heinrich<br>
<<a
href="mailto:christian.heinrich@cmlh.id.au"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">christian.heinrich@cmlh.id.au</a>>
wrote:<br>
> <a
href="https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/victoria-police-arrest-three-people-allegedly-planning-a-terror-attack-in-melbourne/news-story/e6a92273b37dce750937e1e0f86a7dcd"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/victoria-police-arrest-three-people-allegedly-planning-a-terror-attack-in-melbourne/news-story/e6a92273b37dce750937e1e0f86a7dcd</a><br>
> has quoted Mr Dutton on WhatsApp
again but from my reading WhatsApp<br>
> was not used in this specific
case?<br>
<br>
This has now been alleged within<br>
<a
href="https://www.news.com.au/technology/gadgets/mobile-phones/unacceptable-risk-the-secret-way-terrorists-and-criminals-are-communicating/news-story/731ca32e7432601d6b3ce5ca4f34bf80"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.news.com.au/technology/gadgets/mobile-phones/unacceptable-risk-the-secret-way-terrorists-and-criminals-are-communicating/news-story/731ca32e7432601d6b3ce5ca4f34bf80</a><br>
-----------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
<br>
These stories read like gov't scare
tactics. Scare people <br>
enough and they'll 'give up liberty
for a little safety'.<br>
They do not read like objective
journalism.'<br>
<br>
How did they catch everyone without
eliminating privacy<br>
anyway? Good ol' police work?<br>
<br>
scott<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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</p>
<pre>_______________________________________________</pre>
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