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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Thanks Rob. <br>
      In the latest, Dutton wants to speed up the Bill and have it
      passed "next week", and has apparently asked the PJCIS to cut
      short its evaluation, according to reporting of an interview on
      Sky News.<br>
      <br>
      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.itnews.com.au/news/dutton-tries-to-speed-up-encryption-bill-515862">Dutton
        tries to speed up encryption bill</a><br>
      <br>
      (Point of clarification - that bit about smart and dumb criminals
      was while trying to explain the difference between a system having
      a capability that can be used by the operator to implement a "act
      or thing", and an operator actually using that capability in a
      particular instance against a particular target - and that the
      existence of the capability isn't and shouldn't be secret, even if
      the actual use in response to a warrant was still kept a secret. 
      That distinction has been difficult for the committee to
      understand without a simple illustration.)<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      Paul.<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 21/11/2018 2:00 PM, Robert Hudson wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAOu9xN++Kdk2rEnJ0oe5OEB-k6LugOYzTUqonmD+O8DNJ=9dJg@mail.gmail.com">
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      <div dir="auto">(Not necessarily a direct response to Paul's
        email, just additional data for the thread).
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">Traditional media are starting to pick this up,
          and they're just parroting the govt position. Macquarie Radio
          news at 8am ran a story on it this morning, and it was all
          about Dutton saying he wants the legislation passed quickly so
          they can catch more terrorists.</div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">Other than the point well made by Paul Brooks
          that the only criminals who will be caught by this are the
          dumb ones (there was a link made between this proposed
          legislation and three potential terrorists were were arrested
          - without this legislation in place), and the smarter
          criminals (ie those capable of tieing their own shoe laces)
          will simply use software that is not subject to the
          legislation, there is an extension - to break the encryption
          WILL involve creating vulnerabilities (there's simply no way
          around this), and those vulnerabilities will then be available
          for criminals (the bar may be higher than shoelaces, maybe
          they can button their own shirts as well) to exploit and
          compromise data that is legitimately encrypted.</div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">In summary - there is no upside to this proposed
          legislation as far as encryption goes, and there is a
          significant potential downside.</div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">It cannot be allowed to pass.</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr">On Wed, 21 Nov. 2018, 12:09 pm Paul Wilkins <<a
            href="mailto:paulwilkins369@gmail.com" target="_blank"
            rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">paulwilkins369@gmail.com</a>
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div dir="ltr">I'm wondering when the other shoe will drop
              that the Bill enables mass collection and analysis of
              metadata without any further legislation needed. Or the
              implications that metadata from multiple sources (phone
              towers/CCTV/Social Media), lays the foundations for the
              establishment of the machinery of a police state. Of
              course, this will make prosecution of crime
              straightforward (the police will only need to correlate
              crime against a database of the public's electronic
              fingerprints). However, such powerful machinery can be
              used for oppressive purposes, and the Bill is absent the
              checks and balances consistent with the traditions and
              institutions of Liberal Democracy.<br>
               <br>
              If one were cynical you might think the Bill's outrageous
              overreach is deliberate, a Trumpist ploy to enrage the
              unthinking. And when we see critics of the Bill slandered
              for being weak on terrorism, maybe not so wide of the mark
              or so cynical.<br>
              <br>
              Kind regards<br>
              <br>
              Paul Wilkins<br>
              <br>
            </div>
          </div>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div dir="ltr">On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 at 04:15, Scott Weeks
              <<a href="mailto:surfer@mauigateway.com"
                rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
                moz-do-not-send="true">surfer@mauigateway.com</a>>
              wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
              <br>
              On Tue, 20 Nov 2018 at 18:12, Christian Heinrich<br>
              <<a href="mailto:christian.heinrich@cmlh.id.au"
                rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
                moz-do-not-send="true">christian.heinrich@cmlh.id.au</a>>
              wrote:<br>
              > <a
href="https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/victoria-police-arrest-three-people-allegedly-planning-a-terror-attack-in-melbourne/news-story/e6a92273b37dce750937e1e0f86a7dcd"
                rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
                moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/victoria-police-arrest-three-people-allegedly-planning-a-terror-attack-in-melbourne/news-story/e6a92273b37dce750937e1e0f86a7dcd</a><br>
              > has quoted Mr Dutton on WhatsApp again but from my
              reading WhatsApp<br>
              > was not used in this specific case?<br>
              <br>
              This has now been alleged within<br>
              <a
href="https://www.news.com.au/technology/gadgets/mobile-phones/unacceptable-risk-the-secret-way-terrorists-and-criminals-are-communicating/news-story/731ca32e7432601d6b3ce5ca4f34bf80"
                rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
                moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.news.com.au/technology/gadgets/mobile-phones/unacceptable-risk-the-secret-way-terrorists-and-criminals-are-communicating/news-story/731ca32e7432601d6b3ce5ca4f34bf80</a><br>
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              These stories read like gov't scare tactics.  Scare people
              <br>
              enough and they'll 'give up liberty for a little safety'.<br>
              They do not read like objective journalism.'<br>
              <br>
              How did they catch everyone without eliminating privacy<br>
              anyway?  Good ol' police work?<br>
              <br>
              scott<br>
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