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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Hi Peter, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>This scenario has happened a lot in the past before having dedicated hosting DNS servers where DNS functions were shared for hosting and recursive lookups. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I suspect it still happens in smaller organisations where a client delegates the name servers to new authoritative DNS servers without advising the previous hosting party. I know of a few registrars that have a lot of stale orphaned records on their servers. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I have certainly had to raise tickets where outdated records were being provided to clients effectively but unintentionally ‘poisoning’ the DNS responses.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Proper auditing and reporting would resolve this issue.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Kind Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Jim.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> AusNOG <ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Christopher Hawker<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 29 October 2018 3:30 PM<br><b>To:</b> Peter Fern <ausnog@0xc0dedbad.com>; ausnog@lists.ausnog.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Are domain name server pointers reliant on registrar name server?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div id=divtagdefaultwrapper><p><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>This is something that I have regularly seen with cPanel servers, where if a local server is looking for <a href="http://www.example.com" id=LPlnk489631>www.example.com</a> and it sees that the cPanel DNS within that cluster contain a zone for example.com, it will not look any further as it considers it "authoritative", although it may not be.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Example: John Doe's website and domain registration for example.com is hosted with WebHost A on server1, and the DNS is with CloudFlare. The customer has correctly changed the nameserver records with WebHost A to point to CloudFlare (as you would expect one to). However, WebHost A is not aware that John has changed the nameservers over to CloudFlare and server1 still sees that there is a DNS zone for example.com on the DNS cluster. So server1 still thinks that the local DNS cluster is authoritative but everywhere else on the WWW see CloudFlare as authoritative.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>CH.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><hr size=2 width="98%" align=center></span></div><div id=divRplyFwdMsg><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> AusNOG <<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>> on behalf of Peter Fern <<a href="mailto:ausnog@0xc0dedbad.com">ausnog@0xc0dedbad.com</a>><br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 29 October 2018 3:05 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Are domain name server pointers reliant on registrar name server?</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>This is indeed a confusing response.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Why does your nameserver have records for a domain it does not host? If a user has delegated their DNS away to some other nameservers, you should not be serving any records from your nameservers, so the described scenario should never happen. Sounds like a problem for VentraIP to fix.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>On 29/10/18 2:38 pm, Bradley Silverman wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Hi Matt, <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>To answer your specific question, no they wouldn't.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>BUT there is an exception:<br><br>If your site was hosting with us it does add one small layer of complexity, which often trips people up.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Servers are very arrogant, and assume they are the be all and end all. So for instance, let's say you are using Cloudflare as your Nameservers for <a href="http://example.com.au" id=LPlnk223584>example.com.au</a>, and your domain is with Synergy Wholesale.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Synergy Wholesale has the nameservers:<br><a href="http://ns1.cloudflare.com" id=LPlnk970942>ns1.cloudflare.com</a> (I realize that is wrong)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><a href="http://ns2.cloudflare.com" id=LPlnk243232>ns2.cloudflare.com</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Cloudflare has the same nameservers plus:<br>An A record pointing to the VentraIP Server you are on (<a href="http://s111.syd2.hostingplatform.net.au" id=LPlnk770580>s111.syd2.hostingplatform.net.au</a>)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>A MX record pointing to Outlook 365 for your email<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>VentraIP on S111.syd2 has the records:<br>An A record pointing to itself <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>A MX Record pointing to itself (the default for web hosting generally speaking).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>In this circumstance, <a href="http://S111.syd2.hostingplatform.net.au" id=LPlnk220139>S111.syd2.hostingplatform.net.au</a> will assume it is the DNS host. The issue comes when your website has something like a contact form, or another user that uses VentraIP (and is on that server) tries to send an email, it will try to deliver locally.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>This is where Remote MX (in cPanel) comes into play, it tells <a href="http://S111.syd2.hostingplatform.net.au" id=LPlnk818083>S111.syd2.hostingplatform.net.au</a> that it <i>isn't</i> the email host, and to send the email out into the world to find it's own way.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>The other time this will get messy is if you have a sub domain defined on S111.syd2 for <a href="http://test.example.com.au" id=LPlnk526414>test.example.com.au</a> and also have an A record defined at Cloudflare pointing off to <a href="http://otherhostingcompany.com" id=LPlnk909592>otherhostingcompany.com</a>, the rest of the world will go to <a href="http://otherhostingcompany.com" id=LPlnk617512>otherhostingcompany.com</a> for the domain <a href="http://test.example.com.au" id=LPlnk288148>test.example.com.au</a>, but s111.syd2 will look at it's own subdomain for the site, only important in cases where your website at <a href="http://example.com.au" id=LPlnk623856>example.com.au</a> actually looks at <a href="http://test.example.com.au" id=LPlnk35313>test.example.com.au</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>I hope that answers it and doesn't make it more confusing for you!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 width=55 height=55 style='width:.5729in;height:.5729in' id="_x0000_i1026" src="https://static.ventraip.com.au/email/ventraip-corporate-mail-gif.gif" alt="VentraIP Australia logo"><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt 6.0pt'><p><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Bradley Silverman</span></strong><b><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><br></span></b><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Technical Operations \\ VentraIP Australia<br><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>M: </span></strong>+61 418 641 103 | <strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>P:</span></strong> +61 3 9013 8464 | <a href="https://ventraip.com.au/" target="_blank" id=LPlnk960792>ventraip.com.au</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 11:41 AM Matt Selbst <<a href="mailto:matt.j.selbst@gmail.com" id=LPlnk72518>matt.j.selbst@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Hey Bradley,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Thanks for your answer. So assuming I'm not using you for DNS hosting (e.g. using a third party like CloudFlare or AWS Route53) then would your name servers ever be involved in DNS queries for my domain?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>-Matt<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 10:13 AM Bradley Silverman <<a href="mailto:bsilverman@staff.ventraip.com" target="_blank" id=LPlnk60541>bsilverman@staff.ventraip.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Hi Matt, <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>A lot of confusing answers in here, even to me and this is my job to understand them.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>To answer your exact question without filler information:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Your registrar (Synergy Wholesale, TPP Wholesale, NetRegistry) need to have the Nameserver records (<a href="http://ns1.server.net" target="_blank" id=LPlnk252463>ns1.server.net</a> and <a href="http://ns2.server.net" target="_blank" id=LPlnk239369>ns2.server.net</a>) for the domain (<a href="http://Example.com.au" target="_blank" id=LPlnk510297>Example.com.au</a>). <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Then your actual nameservers (<a href="http://ns1.server.net" target="_blank" id=LPlnk38177>ns1.server.net</a> and <a href="http://ns2.server.net" target="_blank" id=LPlnk925509>ns2.server.net</a>) actually require the exact same nameserver records. Trust me, I have seen things go awry when this isn't the case.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>While you are technically reliant on the root, auDA, and Affilias, all their job is to get someones request to the .com.au namespace TO the actual .com.au domains, and not something you ever have to worry about.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>All you need to do is make sure both your registrar and your nameservers point to your nameservers. Does that make sense?<br clear=all><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 width=55 height=55 style='width:.5729in;height:.5729in' id="_x0000_i1027" src="https://static.ventraip.com.au/email/ventraip-corporate-mail-gif.gif" alt="VentraIP Australia logo"><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt 6.0pt'><p><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Bradley Silverman</span></strong><b><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><br></span></b><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Technical Operations \\ VentraIP Australia<br><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>M: </span></strong>+61 418 641 103 | <strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>P:</span></strong> +61 3 9013 8464 | <a href="https://ventraip.com.au/" target="_blank" id=LPlnk612175>ventraip.com.au</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 6:16 AM Matt Selbst <<a href="mailto:matt.j.selbst@gmail.com" target="_blank" id=LPlnk983151>matt.j.selbst@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Right, so for the sake of clarity as I understand it from the responses - I'm reliant on root, auDA and Afilias name servers but NOT my registrar e.g. Synergy Wholesale, TPP Wholesale, NetRegistry etc....<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 5:59 AM Peter Fern <<a href="mailto:ausnog@0xc0dedbad.com" target="_blank" id=LPlnk319506>ausnog@0xc0dedbad.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>On 28/10/18 11:58 pm, Chad Kelly wrote:<br>> On 10/28/2018 11:10 PM, <a href="mailto:ausnog-request@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" id=LPlnk552469>ausnog-request@lists.ausnog.net</a> wrote:<br>><br>>> The original post was asking if the registrar is relied upon here <br>>> (and the answer is no).<br>> But the nameservers themselves still need to be listed at the <br>> registrar level so that they can be found on the public internet. <br>> Otherwise you run into issues with dns lookups and them not being able <br>> to resolve your dns correctly.<br>> They call this having registry hosts.<br>><br><br>registrar != registry<br>_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" id=LPlnk703837>AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank" id=LPlnk276447>http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" id=LPlnk558426>AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank" id=LPlnk162666>http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>