<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>So, someone made reference to the lack of females on the board...</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Can we take a moment and have a look at something? Apart from myself (who identifies as 'one of the guys' most of the time) how many female members are there? If you were to consider the topic being discussed, I would have thought that passionate females on this list would probably want to speak up. It is obviously clear that there are some very supportive males out there which is awesome to see. So what is the ratio of males to females in this situation?</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">I remember a teacher one saying to my class, the worst thing you can be in Australia if you are looking for work is a white Australian male because you have the quota numbers stacked against you. I too am a believer that what we get should be based on merit and not on some quota system. Yes, maybe look at the percentages, if the industry is heavily biased one way over another, then maybe think about ways to market to appeal to other groups, but keep it merit based. Anything else cheapens the achievements of everyone else concerned.<br><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On 3 Oct 2018, at 1:08 pm, dusty <<a href="mailto:dusty.au@gmail.com">dusty.au@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><div dir="auto">“Merit-based selection”</div></div><div dir="auto">False equivalences</div><div dir="auto">#metoo denialism (ohnoes won’t someone think of the poor menfolk??)</div><div dir="auto">“Virtue signalling”</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Anyone else hit redpill bingo from this email alone?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 15:58, James Troy <<a href="mailto:james.troy@agilityapplications.com">james.troy@agilityapplications.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="m_1371428919434512631WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span>Ive long been a member of Ausnog mailing list, I find the information that is often posted here to be quite valuable; I have also been watching this thread with a particular keen interest.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span>Particularly as I was waiting to see how long the #MeToo and ‘gender diversity’ was going to get pushed.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span>Firstly let me say, any assault, sexual or otherwise is not acceptable. Yes IT as an industry is over-represented by males; however to second you start to include someone in something like a board selection based solely on their genitalia is the second you loose any credibility. I wholy subscribe to the idea of the ‘best person for the job’<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span>If that means 25% of one gender and 75% of another then fine, they are all selected on their merits.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span>Anything short of selection based on merits (ie: Gender) opens an entirely different can. Ie: is there someone of Asian/African/Australia/aboriginal/TSI background? No? wow wouldn’t that be racist?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span>Suddenly people talk gender and its acceptable.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span>I believe that IT, Along with many industries still has a long way to go to be fully inclusive of all participants, regardless of race/religion/gender/background – but selection based on gender, percentages, inclusion policies is _<i>not</i>_ the way to get the recognition that some hard-working people deserve. If I worked in a female dominated industry (teaching, midwifery, childcare, etc) I would want to be selected for something like this based on my work ethics, input, and recognition – not simply to be the token male. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span>We as an industry – and as humans – should be there to support our colleagues when they get targeted and victimised, however I also agree that if an accusation is made, and reported to the ‘other company’ then it should also be accompanied with proof – too often we are seeing the #MeToo being used as a weapon to destroy people – predominately men – without a shread of proof.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span>I do however agree that an ausnog post is not the correct forum for that proof and that is best handled between the direct parties – it was suggested at the CEO level – this protects the victim, the *<b>Alleged</b>* (I use this term deliberately as until it is proof we have due process – innocent until PROVEN guilty – same as the media reporting on items that are before the courts.) aggressor until a chain of evidence can be established and only then actioned upon.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span>Im sure I will cop back-lash on this, virtue signalling and all…<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p><table class="m_1371428919434512631MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="5" valign="bottom" style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:13.5pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">James Troy<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:13.5pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#243c98">Senior Systems Administration</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p></td></tr><tr><td colspan="5" valign="top" style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></td></tr><tr style="height:7.5pt"><td nowrap="" valign="top" style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm;height:7.5pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:11.25pt"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></td><td width="40" nowrap="" style="width:30.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm;height:7.5pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></td><td nowrap="" valign="top" style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm;height:7.5pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:11.25pt"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></td><td width="40" nowrap="" style="width:30.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm;height:7.5pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></td><td nowrap="" style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm;height:7.5pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:11.25pt"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#243c98"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></td></tr><tr><td colspan="5" valign="top" style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></td></tr></tbody></table><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> AusNOG <<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>dusty<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 3 October 2018 12:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> Matthew Young <<a href="mailto:matt@mattyoung.net.au" target="_blank">matt@mattyoung.net.au</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@ausnog.net</a> List <<a href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@ausnog.net</a>></span></p></div></div><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="m_1371428919434512631WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 14:59, Matthew Young <<a href="mailto:matt@mattyoung.net.au" target="_blank">matt@mattyoung.net.au</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">“</span>While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the Ausnog board.” <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">People should be appointed based on their merits, not based on their gender.<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Show me a man with a bias-free recruitment/selection process, and I’ll show you a deluded patriarchal fool.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> AusNOG [mailto:<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Wilkins<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 2 October 2018 5:50 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@ausnog.net</a> List <<a href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@ausnog.net</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">"Seems you've never been to a meeting."<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">The verity of this statement cannot be overexaggerated.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Kind regards<u></u><u></u></p><div><div id="m_1371428919434512631m_-3395295236500699019gmail-:xn"><p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" id="m_1371428919434512631m_-3395295236500699019_x005f_x0000_i1025" src="https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif"><u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888"><br></span><span class="m_1371428919434512631m-3395295236500699019gmail-hoenzb"><span style="color:black">Paul Wilkins</span></span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 17:42, Mark Smith <<a href="mailto:markzzzsmith@gmail.com" target="_blank">markzzzsmith@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:50, Paul Wilkins <<a href="mailto:paulwilkins369@gmail.com" target="_blank">paulwilkins369@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>><br>> The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point.<br>><br>> While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and they're all men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing.<br>><br><br>Seems you've never been to a meeting. That's covered in the closing session.<br><br><br><br>> That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise to an unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club.<br>><br>> Kind regards<br>><br>> Paul Wilkins<br>><br>><br>> On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:10, David Hughes <<a href="mailto:david@hughes.com.au" target="_blank">david@hughes.com.au</a>> wrote:<br>>><br>>><br>>> We thank Bevan for raising this important issue and bringing it to our attention.<br>>><br>>> This is a complex situation and we take any allegation of this nature very seriously. We hope to discuss this further with those concerned in an attempt to establish specifics, while maintaining the confidentiality of all parties. If there are any actionable details we will offer assistance to the party involved if they wish to escalate the matter further.<br>>><br>>> Even though issues regarding the behaviour of delegates at our events have never been raised with us, we want our attendees to feel safe and supported. We have commenced a review of policies and processes from other organisations and will work with our solicitors to draft a policy suitable for AusNOG events and mailing lists.<br>>><br>>> The organisers of AusNOG believe that behaviour of this nature is not acceptable at any conference, function, or workplace in our industry. We will attempt to engage the leaders of our industry to push for a broader solution.<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> David - on behalf of the AusNOG Board<br>>> ...<br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> AusNOG mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>>> <a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> AusNOG mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>> <a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><u></u><u></u></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><u></u><u></u></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div>
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