<div dir="ltr"><div>I stand corrected.</div><div><br></div><div><div dir="ltr">
          <div>Kind regards</div>
          <div class="gmail-m_-605662211165741512m_-8122858438961033763m_7476132786117279664gmail-yj6qo gmail-m_-605662211165741512m_-8122858438961033763m_7476132786117279664gmail-ajU">
            <div id="gmail-m_-605662211165741512m_-8122858438961033763m_7476132786117279664gmail-:qx" class="gmail-m_-605662211165741512m_-8122858438961033763m_7476132786117279664gmail-ajR"><img class="gmail-m_-605662211165741512m_-8122858438961033763m_7476132786117279664gmail-ajT gmail-CToWUd" src="https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif"></div>
          </div>
          <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span class="gmail-m_-605662211165741512m_-8122858438961033763m_7476132786117279664gmail-HOEnZb gmail-m_-605662211165741512m_-8122858438961033763m_7476132786117279664gmail-adL">
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Paul Wilkins</div>
            </span></span></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 at 12:40, Narelle Clark <<a href="mailto:narellec@gmail.com">narellec@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><br><div>Wrong agency - it's Home Affairs (Peter Dutton is the minister) not the Attorney General's (Christian Porter) department.</div><div><br></div><div>Narelle</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 11:35 AM Paul Wilkins <<a href="mailto:paulwilkins369@gmail.com" target="_blank">paulwilkins369@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">To my mind, treatment by Attorney General's of the consultation process holds the public and industry in contempt. With under 2 weeks between closure of submissions and transfer to PJCIS, how could they have even read all submissions, let alone given them due consideration? The bearest of amendments fiddling at the edges serves only so that Dutton can tell the House industry has been consulted, before steamrolling an ill prepared Bill through the House.<br><br>The Guardian article suggests Labor support is iffy. But I'm not even convinced Liberals are behind this, the push seems to emanate from Attorney General's.<br><br>For anyone with serious concerns, looking to delay passage of the Bill to give sufficient time to allow development of a considered well designed framework, with a workable and proportionate regime, I'd be writing to local members and pointing out where the Bill is premature, deficient and badly framed.<br><br>Kind regards<br><br>Paul Wilkins<br><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 at 11:07, Paul Wilkins <<a href="mailto:paulwilkins369@gmail.com" target="_blank">paulwilkins369@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/sep/27/australias-spyware-law-could-expose-phones-to-exploitation-business-group-warns" target="_blank">https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/sep/27/australias-spyware-law-could-expose-phones-to-exploitation-business-group-warns</a></div><div><br></div><div>Submission by <a href="https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/consultations/Documents/australian-information-industry.pdf" target="_blank">Australian Information Industry Association</a></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 at 17:58, Paul Brooks <<a href="mailto:pbrooks-ausnog@layer10.com.au" target="_blank">pbrooks-ausnog@layer10.com.au</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <div class="m_1819395892395844786m_8794334612993122881m_-8122858438961033763m_7476132786117279664moz-cite-prefix">I've heard the PJCIS process will also
      be rushed. Calls for 'intentions to submit/reqests to appear' are
      open now for a few weeks only.<br>
      <b>They are planning precisely 1 single day for public hearings.
        No more.</b><br>
      <br>
      There are three sitting weeks left in the year. There is an
      election to be called next year probably in May, and caretaker
      conventions which would prevent any further work on this bill from
      sometime in April. so the Government's need for an accelerated
      process is clear.<br>
      <br>
      All these points below need to be made in submissions to the PJCIS
      now, so that they can easily see they'll need more than 1 day to
      get through all the witnesses that want to appear and make these
      points.<br>
      <br>
<a class="m_1819395892395844786m_8794334612993122881m_-8122858438961033763m_7476132786117279664moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Joint/Intelligence_and_Security/TelcoAmendmentBill2018" target="_blank">https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Joint/Intelligence_and_Security/TelcoAmendmentBill2018</a><br>
      <blockquote type="cite">The Committee is currently accepting
        submissions to this review. Submissions should be provided no
        later than <strong>12pm, Friday, 12 October 2018.</strong> If
        you intend to make a submission, please contact the Secretariat
        at <a href="mailto:TOLAbill@aph.gov.au" target="_blank">TOLAbill@aph.gov.au</a>
        by Tuesday, 2 October 2018 to assist with planning. Hearings are
        expected to be held on Friday, 19 October 2018.</blockquote>
      <br>
      Please - send an email now to <a class="m_1819395892395844786m_8794334612993122881m_-8122858438961033763m_7476132786117279664moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:TOLAbill@aph.gov.au" target="_blank">TOLAbill@aph.gov.au</a> to confirm you
      will (a) make a submission, and (b) wish to appear at the public
      hearing - and then work out what you want to say. Re-sending a
      submission previously sent to the Home Affairs sham consultation
      would be a good start - the committee may not be given the
      submissions sent in earlier this month to Home Affairs..<br>
      <br>
      And clear your diaries for Friday 19th October - maybe in Canberra
      if there is to be only one day. I'm still waiting on confirmation
      of venue.<br>
      <br>
      Paul.<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 25/09/2018 5:05 PM, Paul Wilkins wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div dir="ltr">I'm thinking Dutton's decision to push ahead with
          an ill drawn bill wasn't completely isolated from his and the
          government's need to change the news cycle around his au pair
          scrape.<br>
          <br>
          Which is not to say the cops don't have active activations
          they want these powers for, and as soon as possible. A big
          bust with Dutton's new powers would be a shot in the arm for
          the government's fortunes.<br>
          <br>
          However, the Bill doesn't deserve to pass, because it's not
          ready, and will lead to unhappy outcomes, particularly for
          service providers. Everyone has their concerns, these are
          mine:<br>
          <br>
          1 - The multiplicity of agencies and agents who can authorise
          TANs and TARs.<br>
          <br>
          1a - Warrant data and service provider data will reside with
          the issuing agencies.<br>
          <br>
          Hence, the government needs to reconsider the whole approach,
          and instead, have one agency act as a clearing house for
          TCN/TAN/TARs, and act as custodian of warrant data and service
          provider confidential data.<br>
          <br>
          2 - The lack of civil appeal process against TCN/TAN/TARs.<br>
          Grounds for appeal to either refuse or delay assistance should
          include:<br>
          Cost, security management, risk management, business
          management processes, disruption to business, disparity of
          TCN/TAN/TAR with Privacy Act 1988.<br>
          <br>
          2a - The real possibility TAN/TARs will be used by Law
          Enforcement to coerce unlawful access/disclosure.<br>
          <br>
          3 - The low bar required to issue TCN/TAN/TARs. The
          government's case for these powers is serious crime and
          terrorism. I don't know, but I imagine they settled for
          "serious crime as defined under the Crimes Act" because (again
          I'm guessing) that's the standard for physical warrants? It'd
          be good to be clear as to this point, because cyber warrants
          and physical warrants are, I think we'll agree, different in
          kind. It's one thing to execute a physical warrant, which
          means you have to give Law Enforcement entry, but I feel 2
          years sets the bar a little low to let Law Enforcement go
          snooping about a data centre, or pushing bootloader updates to
          your phone.<br>
          <br>
          4 - The lack of accountability. The reporting requirements are
          a rubber stamp, and leave the public none the wiser how these
          powers are being used, whether they're successful, and to what
          ends they're exercised. They will of course be used by the AFP
          to pursue journalist sources of government leaks. I'm not sure
          it's clear all leaks are against the public interest. There's
          that problem where the government's interests, and the public
          interest, are not always the same thing.<br>
          <br>
          4a - There needs to be specific details as to the use of the
          power to enforce silence as to the  existence of TCN/TAN/TARs.
          I'm thinking this power to suppress shouldn't lie with Law
          Enforcement at all, but should rather form part of the terms
          of the accompanying computer/data warrants.<br>
          <br>
          5 - The Emergency provisions make the police a power
          answerable to themselves for 48 hours.<br>
          <br>
          6 - The definition of "computer" which extends to any data
          held on any computer connected on "the same network" - which
          can be read as extending to the internet and anything that
          connects to the internet.<br>
          <br>
          7 - I think the drafting is flawed, where TCN/TAN/TARs
          restrict themselves to a target computer. I think it's
          arguable the Bill doesn't extend to compelling access to
          ancillary computers/network devices, needed to extract data
          from the target computer.</div>
        <div dir="ltr"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="ltr">
          <div>Kind regards</div>
          <div class="m_1819395892395844786m_8794334612993122881m_-8122858438961033763m_7476132786117279664gmail-yj6qo m_1819395892395844786m_8794334612993122881m_-8122858438961033763m_7476132786117279664gmail-ajU">
            <div id="m_1819395892395844786m_8794334612993122881m_-8122858438961033763m_7476132786117279664gmail-:qx" class="m_1819395892395844786m_8794334612993122881m_-8122858438961033763m_7476132786117279664gmail-ajR"><img class="m_1819395892395844786m_8794334612993122881m_-8122858438961033763m_7476132786117279664gmail-ajT" src="https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif"></div>
          </div>
          <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span class="m_1819395892395844786m_8794334612993122881m_-8122858438961033763m_7476132786117279664gmail-HOEnZb m_1819395892395844786m_8794334612993122881m_-8122858438961033763m_7476132786117279664gmail-adL">
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Paul Wilkins</div>
            </span></span></div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr">On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 at 13:51, <<a href="mailto:trs80@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au" target="_blank">trs80@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au</a>>
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Tue, 25
          Sep 2018, Paul Wilkins wrote:<br>
          <br>
          > Australia is bound under international law against
          arbitrary or unlawful incursions of the right to privacy.
          That's black letter<br>
          > law.<br>
          <br>
          We are also bound under international law the 1951 Refugee
          Convention. The <br>
          Australian government removed references to the convention
          from the laws <br>
          of Australia, so the courts can no longer enforce it. See also
          this great <br>
          quote:<br>
          <br>
          The Court held that Australian courts are bound to apply
          Australian <br>
          statute law “even if that law should violate a rule of
          international law.”<br>
          <br>
          <a href="http://ilareporter.org.au/2018/04/australias-disengagement-from-international-refugee-law-the-principle-of-non-refoulement-and-the-doctrine-of-jurisdiction-sophie-capicchiano-young/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ilareporter.org.au/2018/04/australias-disengagement-from-international-refugee-law-the-principle-of-non-refoulement-and-the-doctrine-of-jurisdiction-sophie-capicchiano-young/</a><br>
          <a href="http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/HCA/2015/1.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/HCA/2015/1.html</a>
          p462<br>
          <br>
          So as Mark said, these international "laws" mean nothing here
          unless <br>
          enacted by the Australian parliament. And specific bills, like
          the <br>
          Assistance and Access Bill can override them at will.<br>
          <br>
          -- <br>
          # TRS-80              trs80(a)<a href="http://ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au</a>
          #/ "Otherwise Bub here will do \<br>
          # UCC Wheel Member     <a href="http://trs80.ucc.asn.au/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://trs80.ucc.asn.au/</a>
          #|  what squirrels do best     |<br>
          [ "There's nobody getting rich writing          ]|  -- Collect
          and hide your   |<br>
          [  software that I know of" -- Bill Gates, 1980 ]\  nuts." --
          Acid Reflux #231 /</blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
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      <br>
      <pre>_______________________________________________
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    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
  </div>

</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="m_1819395892395844786gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><br><br>Narelle<br><a href="mailto:narellec@gmail.com" target="_blank">narellec@gmail.com</a></div>
</blockquote></div>