<div dir="ltr"><div style="margin-left:40px">"Sure they will be able to enforce it against others, but their whole <br>
argument for these laws is to go after those actors when it is manifestly <br>
ineffective for that."</div><div><br></div><div>Yes, and no. There's actors, and then there's their actions. There's 2 different sorts of traffic on the internet that law enforcement & security services want to go after - broadcast (eg: social media), and point to point. When it comes to identifying users of social media using it for illegal ends, this is something that should have been done ages ago, should have been a priority before Data Retention. When it comes to isolating actors with a serious agenda to use end to end to encryption for nefarious means, I figure most everybody realises this is like looking for a needle in a haystack.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Kind regards</div><div><br></div><div>Paul Wilkins<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Mon, 3 Sep 2018 at 01:07, <<a href="mailto:trs80@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au">trs80@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Sun, 2 Sep 2018, Paul Wilkins wrote:<br>
<br>
> The government is going to be able to enforce the Assistance and Access Bill, because to operate a business in Australia,<br>
> requires a local presence. Your trade marks and intellectual property need recognition, and you require a registered company to<br>
> conduct business and to hold bank accounts. If you won't comply with assistance/capability notices, you won't be able to conduct<br>
> business in Australia.<br>
<br>
Telegram and Signal have none of those and work fine here. Arguably <br>
neither is a business, certainly in the traditional sense of the word. And <br>
yet they offer precisely what the "worst of the worst" desire - end-to-end <br>
encryption that, as you so clearly point out, the Australian government <br>
has no power to prevent.<br>
<br>
Sure they will be able to enforce it against others, but their whole <br>
argument for these laws is to go after those actors when it is manifestly <br>
ineffective for that.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
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</blockquote></div>