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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 16/08/2018 11:09 AM, Paul Julian
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:c2849bd3-0f4d-4adb-9d40-2ee69271263f@buildingconnect.com.au">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi
Paul,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Where
do you even start ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I
would love to be able to comment on these things properly
but how do you structure a response that isn’t just a whinge
and saying that it’s not fair and blah blah, it would need
to offer alternatives or suggestions on how else this could
be accomplished or why it shouldn’t be in the first place.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I
would be interested in working with others as I think this
is totally NOT ok, but I just don’t know where to even
start, anybody ?</span></p>
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</blockquote>
<br>
5 paragraphs, 2 pages:<br>
* Thanks for the chance to comment<br>
* Who you are (I'm (XXX) and I run an ISP/phone store/fruitshop/XXX
which will be directly affected by this proposal..)<br>
* I'm concerned that....<br>
* This will affect me/my business/my customers because.....<br>
* Thanks again, I'd be happy to meet and go into more detail (unless
you're not)<br>
<br>
It doesn't have to be written by a lawyer - don't be concerned with
it appearing 'amateur', they are the ones that often carry more
weight as they are clearly written by someone who personally cares,
not someone paid to do so. Anything a level above an email saying
nothing more than 'this sucks, you're stupid' is good.<br>
<br>
If it helps in preparing someone to crack open a bottle of something
and put some words down over the weekend, I offer this that I sent
through to our members mailing list today, for what its worth:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Something to keep in mind.... <br>
<br>
In our many discussions with Law Enforcement over the years, with
things like this, metadata retention, website blocking, etc, one
of the consistent messages is that they really don't expect or aim
for 100% coverage. For the agencies, its enough for them to just
capture the stupid or careless criminals, and recognise that
smarter ones will always find a way around the issue. <br>
<br>
A common response to a new law or regulation from organisations
like ours is to think of a number of ways the new law could be
worked around, and then put a position that the law is flawed
because it won't achieve 100% coverage of fixing the perceived
problem. Thats a very black/white 'engineering' response. They
don't care - if the measure might catch 50% of the target,
possibly the most ignorant or stupid 50%, thats still a win in law
enforcement eyes, thats 50%, or maybe only 30% they wouldn't have
caught another way, so the new laws are justified in their eyes
just to get those extras. <br>
<br>
We've learned over the years that just pointing out how easy the
new law might be for a smart criminal to get around is not
sufficient. The arguments that carry more weight, is how much of a
burden/risk/cost the new law will create on the good law-abiding
folk, including businesses, who <b class="moz-txt-star"><span
class="moz-txt-tag">*</span>aren't<span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span></b>
criminals and are using the services legitimately. <br>
<br>
Thats one of the reasons why website blocking for copyright
infringement succeeded. Yes, its very easy to whip up 15 ways to
work around it and why it wouldn't be 100% effective. But its much
harder to find reasons to retain the ability for ordinary
law-abiding people to use DownloadFreeHollywoodMovies.com and
argue it shouldn't be blocked. So it gets blocked at very little
cost or inconvenience for good people, and others work around it
if they want to. <br>
<br>
By all means, dream up ways these new draft laws can be worked
around by criminals intent to do so, like the discussion below. <br>
But please please also put some energy into thinking of scenarios
where non-criminals will incur cost, reduced utility, friction,
unreasonable privacy-crippling surveillance, or be prevented from
doing something legitimate because of these new laws. <br>
<br>
Its the 'collateral damage to good people' arguments that carry
much more weight.
</blockquote>
<br>
Paul<br>
(with my hat as Chair of <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="www.internet.org.au">Internet Australia</a> this year)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:c2849bd3-0f4d-4adb-9d40-2ee69271263f@buildingconnect.com.au">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> AusNOG <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net"><ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Wilkins<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 16 August 2018 11:00 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Dutton decryption bill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>They're taking
feedback/submissions/comments for 4 weeks only - is anyone
planning to submit some comment?</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It'd be sad if the government only saw
response from a few corporates representing their vested
interests. Representative democracy only works on a put up
or shut up basis. Anyone with an interest in the evolution
of our industry should consider making a submission, or at
least expressing by proxy through a joint submission.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Kind regards<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul Wilkins <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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