<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>So we then sit and watch as the price for everything starts to go through the roof further than it has. Previously they have been able to sell equipment, and then the contracts. The contracts cover the staff and any additional costs that may arise or pays for them to send out people to deal with issues. </div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">If they are no longer able to charge for the contracts, then the price will be just added on. </div><div id="AppleMailSignature">In the case of second hand equipment, wouldn't the responsibility be on the purchaser to have more of an idea on what they are getting? Otherwise, perhaps having people check out the equipment prior to starting a contract and then going from there... if you want to look back at the insurance analogy, then if your car is off the road for a bit and you get it insured again, you need to send through pics of it usually with a newspaper or something with the date on it so they know what they are covering.<br><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On 26 Apr 2018, at 6:09 pm, Ben Buxton <<a href="mailto:bb.ausnog@bb.cactii.net">bb.ausnog@bb.cactii.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><br><div>Sounds like you're all getting shafted big-time by the vendors, and it's mostly because no one in this industry has the guts to stand up for themselves.</div><div><br></div><div>You all need to demand that the vendors comply with their legal obligations under Australian Consumer Law (yes - <a href="https://www.accc.gov.au/business/treating-customers-fairly/consumers-rights-obligations">you're covered by it too</a> for your sub-$40k kit).</div><div><br></div><div>If you've got a maintenance contract, ask again what it gives you. Strike out everything that they're legally required to cover for free anyway, and then see what you're actually paying for - probably only the right to ask how to configure the thing, and perhaps next-day replacements.</div><div><br></div><div>Everything else (software bug fixes, dead linecards, fried power supplies) has to be covered by them already, whether or not you have a contract, until the product is EOL. Note too that you can't sign those rights away in a contract - the contract can only add to them.</div><div><div><br></div><div>I'd be demanding maintenance refunds and/or significant reductions at renewal time. </div></div><div><br></div><div>If you've got a dead 2 year old switch and no maintenance contract, ring up the vendor and demand they fix that shit anyway, as they're legally required to do. </div><div><br></div><div>(for precedent, Apple tried to pull this crap with Applecare - the ACCC gave them a good smackdown)</div><div><br></div><div>BB</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 4:54 PM <<a href="mailto:trs80@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au">trs80@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Tue, 24 Apr 2018, Peter Tiggerdine wrote:<br>
<br>
> Seems to me it's a "just in time support" tax. If a business doesn't need support for 2 years but then decides to get support<br>
> and use the TAC service, then they're paying for what they're using. To charge customers a tax because they didn't require the<br>
> service or support for 2 years is just large Multinationals pork barrelling and over-inflating their annuity numbers.<br>
> <br>
> I've spoken to the Office of Fair trade on this matter and they seem to share my view (that's its unreasonable, however fair<br>
> trade is really a mediation service it appears) Hoping to have a conversation later in the week with the ACCC. I do seriously<br>
> question the legality of the charge under Australian consumer law. I suspect this is a North American policy.<br>
<br>
What if the vendor then just refuses to sell you support at all? They're <br>
under no obligation to do so. I don't like it either, and second-hand <br>
hardware is certainly different to having let support lapse then trying to <br>
reinstate it, but really how can you force them to the table since you <br>
didn't transact with them originally? Have you considered just selling <br>
what was bought and then buying new or second-hand hardware from a <br>
different vendor without such a policy?<br>
<br>
-- <br>
# TRS-80 trs80(a)<a href="http://ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au</a> #/ "Otherwise Bub here will do \<br>
# UCC Wheel Member <a href="http://trs80.ucc.asn.au/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://trs80.ucc.asn.au/</a> #| what squirrels do best |<br>
[ "There's nobody getting rich writing ]| -- Collect and hide your |<br>
[ software that I know of" -- Bill Gates, 1980 ]\ nuts." -- Acid Reflux #231 /<br>
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