<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 6:08 AM, Paul Wilkins <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:paulwilkins369@gmail.com" target="_blank">paulwilkins369@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Thales nShield Connect provides FIPs 140-2 grade security to distributed hosts. Keys are distributed using an encrypted remote file system.<br><br></div><div>So people advising government will be thinking of architectures where a government escrow server is an additional client. Give it Moore's law, technical advances, and the march of time, it's inevitable one day you'll need a license to run crypto services.<br><br></div><div>And I find the assumption of bad faith from government bewildering. It's been said democracy is a terrible system, it's just better than all other systems of government. But you hardly have grounds to complain if you won't engage in constructive public debate, which is how government policy actually happens, regardless of what some might think.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Who's "you" in this context? Brandis, Shorten, Turnbull et al are the ones who seem uninterested in a constructive public debate with people who have an ACTUAL understanding of this. They seem quite keen on rushing this through (just as they did with the meta data bullshit) without ANY actual informed debate.</div><div><br></div><div>We've had many years since 2001 of governments succumbing to/using the "terrorist" buzzword to undermine privacy and rights in general. We'll give up privacy here BUT IT STILL WONT BE ENOUGH, so they'll come back in another year saying we need to give up more. </div><div><br></div><div>The theme here is that the government knowing more hasn't changed anything, or worse, them knowing more hasn't made them more competent at their job - no one asks "well, we gave up all these other privacies and rights because you said it'd make us safer, but you're saying it hasn't and now we need to give up more?" </div><div><br></div><div>I call bullshit on the whole thing - from immigration policy, to giving up meta data, to the government wanting EXTRAORDINARY powers to coerce, detain, reject citizens, strip citizenship with no recourse. Not a single part of this has made us safer or society better. And that's because politics has descended into a revolting human hating mess. </div><div><br></div><div>We need to look in the other direction and stop falling for this crap - we need to make society stronger so that we value it and value each other so that we're more likely to want look after each other and each other's children.</div><div><br></div><div>The Australian government does not need more powers to intercept. Australian Politicians need to focus on building a strong, diverse, society that values each other's similarities AND differences and celebrates that. </div><div><br></div><div>Stop falling for this distraction and focus on the important stuff. It's harder to do but much more worthwhile.</div><div><br></div><div>MMC</div><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div></kevlar flame retardardant suit><br></div><div><br></div><div>Kind regards<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br><br></font></span></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div>Paul Wilkins<br></div></font></span></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 15 June 2017 at 17:44, Robert Hudson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hudrob@gmail.com" target="_blank">hudrob@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">I concur.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Providing an alternative solution is only useful if there is actually a valid alternative.<div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">If there is not, you're best to just say it. If an idea is stupid, state not only that it is so, but state why. And don't sugar coat it either, sugar coating just gives wriggle room to someone trying to justify their own stupidity.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Rip that bandaid off.</div><div><div class="m_-603130523099629648h5"><br><div class="gmail_extra" dir="auto"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 15 Jun. 2017 5:14 pm, "grenville armitage" <<a href="mailto:garmitage@swin.edu.au" target="_blank">garmitage@swin.edu.au</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="m_-603130523099629648m_863271574428917483quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
<br>
On 06/15/2017 15:47, Mark Newton wrote:<br>
[..]<div class="m_-603130523099629648m_863271574428917483quoted-text"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Whether we're talking about internet censorship, copyright takedowns, data retention, or now this, these Australian (always Australian) technical mailing lists are always full of people who say, "That's stupid, what they *really* should do is..." followed by, "We're working positively with the Government to make the best of a bad situation," after the inevitable loss.<br>
</blockquote></div>
[..]<div class="m_-603130523099629648m_863271574428917483quoted-text"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
You don't need to offer an alternative to a bad idea to communicate that it's a bad idea.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
(I've got nothing to add. I just want to see the words above repeated.)<br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
gja<div class="m_-603130523099629648m_863271574428917483elided-text"><br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
AusNOG mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailma<wbr>n/listinfo/ausnog</a><br>
</div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
AusNOG mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailma<wbr>n/listinfo/ausnog</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
AusNOG mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>