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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sorry guys, I think maybe my point wasn’t explained correctly.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We are an ISP, we provide a service, let’s say at 20M for the customer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The service is delivered at 20M so there are no issues, however when the customer does a speed test at 12:35PM for example they see 4.8Mbit/s down and 12Mbit/s up (pie in the sky figures of course)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So then they complain that they aren’t getting 20M because the speed test says they aren’t, even though 5 staff are using you tube and they have email coming through and other typical internet traffic which is consuming some of their bandwidth.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So what I am looking for is some simple layman diagram which shows some traffic and a link and what happens when you do a speed test whilst there is other traffic on that link to show that they will never get full speed on a speed test whilst they are actually using the link.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thoughts ?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Wilkins<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 6 December 2016 12:55 PM<br><b>To:</b> AusNOG Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Speedtest results<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>If the customer can never get 20Mbps from anywhere, at 3:00am, you would definitely have grounds of appeal to the ACCC or the telecoms ombudsman.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>But otherwise, we're back to the problem of referring the problem to someone else, in this case lawyers, to decide what your offer of stoichometric service guarantees actually means. And no one is offering end to end performance guarantees on a transit service.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Kind regards<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Paul Wilkins<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 6 December 2016 at 12:36, Mark Smith <<a href="mailto:markzzzsmith@gmail.com" target="_blank">markzzzsmith@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 6 Dec. 2016 12:09, "Paul Wilkins" <<a href="mailto:paulwilkins369@gmail.com" target="_blank">paulwilkins369@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I don't think a diagramme is going to explain the complex stoichometric behaviour of a packet switched network where traffic metrics - throughput/latency/packet loss - are characterised by the complex interrelationships of multiple time domain congested queues within a distributed network.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>I rather think that rather than addressing the fundamental ontological question "what is network performance", the inclination, across the industry, is to reach for a diagramme, that says the performance isn't my problem, it's someone else's problem. Frustratingly or perhaps conveniently, without ever actually explaining what performance is, you will never identify the causes of performance problems. So the answer to the customer remains, there is no problem, or if there is, it's not our responsibility and there's nothing we can do about it.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>It's your responsibility to ensure the customer can get what you're selling them. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>If the OP's customer can never ever get 20Mbps from anywhere, then I'd think that is in breach of ACCC consumer guarantees, specifically, for a Service,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='color:#363535;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue","serif"'>be fit for the purpose or give the results that you and the business had agreed to<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/consumer-guarantees" target="_blank">https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/consumer-guarantees</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Kind regards<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Paul Wilkins<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 5 December 2016 at 13:25, <a href="mailto:paul%2Bausnog@oxygennetworks.com.au" target="_blank">paul+ausnog@oxygennetworks.com.au</a> <<a href="mailto:paul+ausnog@oxygennetworks.com.au" target="_blank">paul+ausnog@oxygennetworks.com.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hi All, many of us would be familiar with the complaints from customers about not getting the speeds they pay for, this doesn’t really matter if it’s ADSL, NBN, Ethernet, whatever really.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>We have found that as with most people the average customer expects their 20M Ethernet connection to still deliver 20M from their test on <a href="http://speedtest.net" target="_blank">speedtest.net</a> even when people are using it and consuming it, so I was wondering if anybody has come across a diagram in their travels which depicts the capacity of an Internet connection and shows data traversing that so that we can give customers a visual representation of what is actually happening on their connection when they do their speed test.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I have had a bit of a scour around already but can’t really find anything which jumps out at me and helps me get this information across simply, you know what they say, a picture tells a thousand words.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Regards<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#888888'>Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>