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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">As a user on the internet, it’s not really possible to choose which paths to take.
<br>
This is done for you with BGP, as as you can obviously see, BGP uses a metric of Cost ($$$) rather than throughput, loss or congestion.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">So the path it takes will the one with the least cost to each service provider.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">J/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">Clay Quinn <cquinn@mrv.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 3:31 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Adam Baxter <adam1984@gmail.com>, James Tin <jtin@akamai.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Kim Pearce <kim.pearce@gmail.com>, "ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog@lists.ausnog.net>, Fernando Sertp <fserto@akamai.com><br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">It’s just remote desktop to a linux machine for 1 person, so trying to do it on the cheap (if it’s possible).</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Does anyone have a list of ISPs in Australia who use SE-ME-WE-3? That’s the path I need, but haven’t been able to hit it using a few looking glasses (everything prefers US
that I’ve seen – probably cost decision).</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">Cheers</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">Clay</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> Adam Baxter [mailto:adam1984@gmail.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 13 September 2016 2:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tin, James <jtin@akamai.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Clay Quinn <cquinn@mrv.com>; Kim Pearce <kim.pearce@gmail.com>; ausnog@lists.ausnog.net; Serto, Fernando <fserto@akamai.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">Modern RDP can use UDP..<br>
<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__support.microsoft.com_en-2Dus_kb_2592687&d=DQMGaQ&c=96ZbZZcaMF4w0F4jpN6LZg&r=wJDREqbOvAj7uAMLV05riA&m=Ok91FiNbFWtzHoJmc1x9TKZAETJIEiREDq8pI-XybdM&s=e0CE-sf86yGj5gy0pEuciOGFgDzMAsGUPnVwx0INidw&e=">https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2592687</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">On 13 September 2016 at 14:38, Tin, James <<a href="mailto:jtin@akamai.com" target="_blank">jtin@akamai.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Clay, what App or resources are you accessing or providing?
</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">As someone mentioned, if terminal services, you can use VMware’s PCOIP for delivery over UDP, this overcomes the TCP inefficiencies
but you need a lot of bandwidth capacity.</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Depending on your budget there are some solutions to address the poor user experience, poor throughput and lack of control over
the internet.</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">There are some technologies which run some races over diverse paths and will map across the internet, then choose the best path
based on performance, packet loss etc.</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">There is also wan optimisation such that if you do lose a packet, the packet will be rebuilt based upon additional parity bits
(Forward Error Correction). </span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Additionally, the traffic can be delivered over the internet using UDP instead of TCP, which overcomes the TCP performance problems.
</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">The 3 solutions combined will make a massive difference for performance.
</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Riverbed has some of this and uses Sure Route from Akamai Technologies.
</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Akamai has all 3 capabilities built into IP Accelerator which does FEC, Sure Route, delivery over UDP, TCP optimisatation, you
access their network in the source and destination countries and rely upon their global platform for delivery (so any loss is retransmitted locally at each end as a full proxy, DSA and their web acceleration products.</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Cisco also has something along these lines.</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">There are also solutions from Silver Peak and Citrix which provide FEC, but rely upon BGP.
</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Some telco’s are going to be offering this as a premium service based on Akamai’s technology.</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">So depending on your app and your budget, there are a number of ways to address this without digging up the earth of deploying
your own super expensive private link for part of the connectivity.</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">J/</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">Clay Quinn <<a href="mailto:cquinn@mrv.com" target="_blank">cquinn@mrv.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 2:07 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Kim Pearce <<a href="mailto:kim.pearce@gmail.com" target="_blank">kim.pearce@gmail.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>></span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?<span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-AU">I knew I could depend on AusNOG to explore every option - thanks :)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-AU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-AU">A colleague of mine suggested to VPN to a point half-way along the alternate direction (eg India) and see if the connection would be routed through Europe from there. Could reduce the latency significantly, worth a shot. Will let you
know if I succeed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-AU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-AU">Also some others suggested to tweak the TCP settings, which I will also look into – again, thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-AU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-AU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-AU">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-AU">Clay<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> AusNOG [mailto:<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kim Pearce<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 13 September 2016 2:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-AU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-AU">And if you drill, it is a 20,000km round trip - ~(10,000km along the chord from SYD to TLV)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-AU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-AU">On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Mark Andrews <<a href="mailto:marka@isc.org" target="_blank">marka@isc.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-AU"><br>
In message <<a href="mailto:AM5PR0301MB24814072C2675F44C808F43AD2FE0@AM5PR0301MB2481.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank">AM5PR0301MB24814072C2675F44C808F43AD2FE0@AM5PR0301MB2481.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com</a>>, Clay Quinn writes:<br>
><br>
> Hi All,<br>
><br>
> An oddball question - is anyone using services over Internet to Israel<br>
> (VPN etc), and if so what is your round-trip latency? From a Telstra TID<br>
> connection I'm getting around 400ms (Sydney, LA, New York, UK, France,<br>
> Israel). I'm curious if there's a less-latent path on another<br>
> provider/route (RDP sessions are painfully slow).<br>
<br>
SYD to TLV is 8813 great circle miles (14183km). This gives a lower<br>
bound on a terrestrial path unless you start drilling.<br>
<br>
> Using 30,000km as an estimate for the fibre distance, that gives a<br>
> theoretical minimum latency of 300ms (0.5us/km * 30,000km * both<br>
> directions). So there's an additional 100ms of overhead there (OEO<br>
> conversions probably - 30 hops in traceroute).<br>
><br>
> If that's par for the course, I guess WAN acceleration is really the only<br>
> option - I understand it's a pretty long path. If anyone has any unique<br>
> solutions to this problem I'd love to hear it.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Cheers<br>
> Clay<br>
><br>
> Clay Quinn<br>
> Presales Engineer<br>
> MRV Communications Pty Ltd.<br>
> Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B61%20427%20339%20000" target="_blank">+61 427 339 000</a> | Email:
<a href="mailto:cquinn@mrv.com" target="_blank">cquinn@mrv.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:cquinn@mrv.com" target="_blank">cquinn@mrv.com</a>><br>
> Skype: clayquinn | Web: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.mrv.com&d=DQMGaQ&c=96ZbZZcaMF4w0F4jpN6LZg&r=wJDREqbOvAj7uAMLV05riA&m=eZl4Gt57uiVTIe53ydQ6FcjXj01VyJiGhdto2C_4SlI&s=0AFwGRL4HQ5ac2E54zC6V7iPQ-HCJCbS4yrHg5IN4xo&e=" target="_blank">
www.mrv.com</a><<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.mrv.com_&d=DQMGaQ&c=96ZbZZcaMF4w0F4jpN6LZg&r=wJDREqbOvAj7uAMLV05riA&m=eZl4Gt57uiVTIe53ydQ6FcjXj01VyJiGhdto2C_4SlI&s=AMkJeLxhEZwRSk5xI3b_CzNfib3FjN7RyrELnGkXYwI&e=" target="_blank">http://www.mrv.com/</a>><br>
><br>
> [Screen Shot 2016-02-01 at 10.11.23]<br>
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<span style="color:#888888">--<br>
Mark Andrews, ISC<br>
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia<br>
PHONE: <a href="tel:%2B61%202%209871%204742" target="_blank">+61 2 9871 4742</a> INTERNET:
<a href="mailto:marka@isc.org" target="_blank">marka@isc.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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