<div dir="ltr">That is crap Paul.<div><br></div><div>You've been around long enough to know what is going on and also to know when to call bullshit on these funding requests.</div><div><br></div><div>If you want to put your head in the sand, fine, but don't expect all of us to do so.</div><div><br></div><div>We don't have to be lawyers. Most of this is pretty obvious. Some of us have built more than enough networks to be very qualified to opine about the requirements for DRIP, ICP, Carrier obligations and powers and so on. There are very few lawyers out there who have any idea about this sort of thing, much less been able to provide any sort of useful advice to most of the smaller ISPs - which I assume most have not even obtained.</div><div><br></div><div>Your Email from June 10 2015 - <a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/2015-June/031557.html">http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/2015-June/031557.html</a> clearly describes who is and isn't and ISP and eligible.</div><div><br></div><div>I'm not sure any Uni's can be considered Carriage Service Providers. They need to be supplying an 'internet carriage service <b>to the public</b>'.  I don't think any Uni's do this commercially (their might be examples?) that is not related to their business of education and research at which point, the user isn't 'the public'.  Given their upstream, AARNET is covered, it I wonder why that is not good enough?</div><div><br></div><div>What examples do you think a Uni could have which is a service which is eligible?</div><div><br></div><div>Paul, you are Vice Chair of Internet Australia. I'd expect you to stand up against funding abuse and be able to use the wisdom you have from being in this industry a long time.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:12.8px"><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br>...Skeeve</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><div><b style="font-size:13px;font-family:calibri">Skeeve Stevens - Founder & The Architect</b><span style="font-family:calibri;font-size:13px"> - eintellego Networks Pty Ltd</span></div><div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:calibri">Email: </span><a href="https://mail.google.com/mail/?view=cm&fs=1&tf=1&to=skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com" style="font-family:calibri;font-size:13px" target="_blank">skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a><span style="font-family:calibri;font-size:13px"> ; Web: </span><a href="http://eintellegonetworks.com/" style="font-family:calibri;font-size:13px" target="_blank">eintellegonetworks.com</a></div><div><p style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; S<a>kype: skeeve ; </a>LinkedIn: <a href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank">/in/skeeve</a> ; Expert360: <a href="https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9" target="_blank">Profile</a> ; Keybase: <a href="https://keybase.io/skeeve" target="_blank">https://keybase.io/skeeve</a></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 3:30 PM, Paul Brooks <span dir="ltr"><<a href="https://mail.google.com/mail/?view=cm&fs=1&tf=1&to=pbrooks-ausnog@layer10.com.au" target="_blank">pbrooks-ausnog@layer10.com.au</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
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    <div>FFS, are we seriously going to have all
      these discussions all over again? We covered universities, and
      services, and who would be eligible and why, way back when the
      DRIPS were first requested. Some Universities clearly think they
      provide services that need a DRIP, some clearly don't. There's no
      particular reason why a University would be exempt, if they
      provide eligible services.<br>
      <br>
      The bigger question is - why in all the seven hells does anyone
      think they have the right, the knowledge, and the legal insight to
      question whether anyone deserves or doesn't deserve anything, when
      ultimately it comes down to an internal legal opinion (*not*
      technical opinion) for every organisation as to what an
      organisation has to do to cover themselves from liability.<br>
      <br>
      Seriously list - unless you are actually a lawyer, qualified to
      give opinion, and expert on every word in the relevent
      legislation, AND you know all about the internals of each
      orghanisation including their internal legal advice on which they
      relied to prepare and submit a DRIP - Shut the frigging hell up
      and lets talk something operational.<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 6/09/2016 3:02 PM, Skeeve Stevens wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">Yes. I've been talking to one Uni that didn't
        apply. They are confused why the others applied as well.
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>I think serious questions need to be asked as to why the
          universities think they are entitled or even eligible to apply
          - and who approved them.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Question. If the result of funding is public, why aren't
          the applications that funding?  Everyone else has to publicly
          disclose what they do in relation to most government funding,
          so why not this?</div>
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                              <div style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
                                ...Skeeve</div>
                              <div style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
                              </div>
                              <div style="font-size:12.8px">
                                <div><b style="font-size:13px;font-family:calibri">Skeeve
                                    Stevens - Founder & The
                                    Architect</b><span style="font-family:calibri;font-size:13px"> -
                                    eintellego Networks Pty Ltd</span></div>
                                <div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:calibri">Email: </span><a href="https://mail.google.com/mail/?view=cm&fs=1&tf=1&to=skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com" style="font-family:calibri;font-size:13px" target="_blank">skeeve@<wbr>eintellegonetworks.com</a><span style="font-family:calibri;font-size:13px"> ; Web: </span><a href="http://eintellegonetworks.com/" style="font-family:calibri;font-size:13px" target="_blank">eintellegonetworks.com</a></div>
                                <div>
                                  <p style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">Cell
                                    +61 (0)414 753 383 ; S<a>kype:
                                      skeeve ; </a>LinkedIn: <a href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank">/in/skeeve</a> ; <wbr>Expert360: <a href="https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9" target="_blank">Profile</a> ;
                                    Keybase: <a href="https://keybase.io/skeeve" target="_blank">https://keybase.io/<wbr>skeeve</a></p>
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        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Chad
          Kelly <span dir="ltr"><<a href="https://mail.google.com/mail/?view=cm&fs=1&tf=1&to=chad@cpkws.com.au" target="_blank">chad@cpkws.com.au</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On
            9/6/2016 12:00 PM, <a href="https://mail.google.com/mail/?view=cm&fs=1&tf=1&to=ausnog-request@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-request@lists.ausnog.ne<wbr>t</a>
            wrote:<br>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
              I was just having a little look at some of the data.<br>
              50% of the total pool went to three recipients.<br>
              <br>
              The bottom 163 (>90%) recipients between them received
              20% of the pool.<br>
              10% of the pool was divided between 137 (76%) of
              recipients.<br>
              <br>
              Without mentioning names, I raised an eyebrow to see that
              there were<br>
              exactly two, identical value grants ($265,600 each) to two
              entities with<br>
              remarkably similar names.<br>
              <br>
            </blockquote>
            This is not unusual, many businesses run several companies
            Micron21 as an example got around $50000 in grant funding
            split over two separate companies.<br>
            The one I don't understand at all is all the Universities
            that got funding, mostly because as I understood the
            legislation the emails that were allocated to staff and
            students would all be classed as the inner circle, or
            whatever it was called.<br>
            In other words it would be classed as internal usage,
            universities are not selling internet access to students.<br>
            The only one I could understand getting funding as an ISP in
            the education space would be the actual ISPs that provide
            the carrier networks for the Universities such as Aarnet
            being the main one.<span><font color="#888888"><br>
                <br>
                <br>
                -- <br>
                Chad Kelly<br>
                Manager<br>
                CPK Web Services<br>
                web <a href="http://www.cpkws.com.au" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.cpkws.com.au</a><br>
                phone 03 9013 4853<br>
                <br>
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              </font></span></blockquote>
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