<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Think of it as blade scraping off the bits that sit above the surface. </div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Shaping is like the spatula applying icing to a cake. All the high bits get pushed into the gaps later. </div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Shaping is expensive. </div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">You need to groom your traffic on its way to the CVC. <br><br><div>John Lindsay</div></div><div><br>On 14 Oct 2015, at 8:58 AM, Joseph Goldman <<a href="mailto:joe@apcs.com.au">joe@apcs.com.au</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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You are correct, from what I have heard. They 'Police' the link
rather than 'Shape' the link, i.e. once the AVC limit is reached
(12/1, 25/5 etc), the packets on top are dropped rather than queued
for delivery. This means NBNCo's routers would have to do a lot less
work, so to avoid packet loss, dropped packets etc for customers who
max out their link it is a good idea to do queuing on your own
termination end.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 14/10/15 08:52, Philip Loenneker
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:d9dcb10221c6422e9fb813d0ad25cc49@TN-EX02.tasmanet.com.au" type="cite">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">As a kind of
side note to this, I’ve heard that the traffic shaping
method by NBN Co is less than ideal (I recall something
about dropping packets instead of queuing but can’t remember
details), and that ISPs should put traffic shaping rules on
their own equipment to avoid performance issues on the
links. I did a bit of a Google on the topic but am probably
using the wrong terminology to find anything useful. Does
anyone have any more information they could share on this? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU" lang="EN-US"> AusNOG
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:paul+ausnog@oxygennetworks.com.au">paul+ausnog@oxygennetworks.com.au</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 14 October 2015 8:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Dino Sosic'
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Dino.Sosic@datacom.com.au"><Dino.Sosic@datacom.com.au></a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] NBN Q<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Sorry, meant to
say AVC ID in the last bit
</span><span style="font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">J</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-AU" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-AU" lang="EN-US"> Dino Sosic
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Dino.Sosic@datacom.com.au">mailto:Dino.Sosic@datacom.com.au</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 14 October 2015 8:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Julian; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [AusNOG] NBN Q<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thanks guys. I
thought it would be something like that, but not a lot of
info out there specific for NBN services.
</span><span style="font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">J</span><span style="color:#1F497D">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU" lang="EN-US"> Paul
Julian [<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:paul@oxygennetworks.com.au">mailto:paul@oxygennetworks.com.au</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 14 October 2015 8:05 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dino Sosic <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Dino.Sosic@datacom.com.au">Dino.Sosic@datacom.com.au</a>>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [AusNOG] NBN Q<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Dino, some
ISP’s do it different to others, some use PPPOE, some use
DHCP, it just depends on what they want to do.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">For an NBN
directly connected ISP they take a VLAN from NBN for each
CVC on each POI they connect to, then each customer is
allocated a VLAN within the CVC VLAN, so you have layer 2
separation between customers, really whether you use PPPOE
or DHCP there is no difference to separation, it’s a matter
of choice for ISP’s, unless they use an aggregator which
only offers one option like Telstra Wholesale, at present
they run their wholesale NBN network over the top of their
retail NBN network, they only offer DHCP.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Regarding the
auth, there is no auth when using DHCP necessariy, but you
can use radius and DHCP to do it if you want, then just do
the accounting based on the IP they are allocated, you can
also allocate IP based on the CVC ID which is presented by
NBN, you can set that up as a radius check attribute so that
you can control various aspects of the session at connection
time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-AU" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-AU" lang="EN-US"> AusNOG [<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dino Sosic<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 14 October 2015 8:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [AusNOG] NBN Q<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi guys,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Quick question about the NBN deployment. I
am looking for a technical answer here. Some NBN services give
you a public IP via DHCP and they push a default route with
it. How are the customers separated and how is the same IP
leased to the same NBN endpoint every time? Is this something
that is different from ISP to ISP or? There is no auth on the
endpoint, and it can’t be the MAC either.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m surprised how little people/engineers
really know about the fine works of NBN deployment. (
especially the ISP engineers )<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dino<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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