<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 17/09/2015 3:25 PM, Paul Wilkins
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAMmROT+PbAW6A5=c6OyqYLTSXYRBmXAMSLYaA=752Z2E8H10AQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div>
          <div>
            <div>
              <div style="margin-left:40px">have a think about how local
                pizza<br>
                shops manage to survive in competition to national pizza<br>
                chains/franchises, who will have lower costs. They're
                all<br>
                fundamentally selling pizza, so how do local pizza shops
                get away with<br>
                not only selling the same thing, but probably make a
                much bigger<br>
                profit when doing it?<br>
              </div>
              <br>
            </div>
            Depends if you want something that someone has repackaged
            from an industrial toxic spill, or a pizza.<br>
            <br>
          </div>
          ISP's otoh largely can't differentiate their product.<br>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Seriously?<br>
    iiNet/Westnet dined out on better customer care<br>
    Internode had a rep for excellent network, a premium service they
    could charge a premium price for.<br>
    DoDo has a different niche.<br>
    Some offer FetchTV over their network. A local/regional player could
    have a dropin-centre where customers can bring in their devices for
    cleaning/debugging/upgrading. Some have more peering than others.<br>
    Internode is (was?) the only major IPv6/IPv4 dual-stack service
    around - which is ridiculous, since anyone can supply IPv6 through
    Telstra Wholesale ADSL.<br>
    <br>
    Differentiate yourself - turn on IPv6 for your customers, then shout
    it from the rooftops.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAMmROT+PbAW6A5=c6OyqYLTSXYRBmXAMSLYaA=752Z2E8H10AQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        Paul Wilkins<br>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On 17 September 2015 at 13:07, Mark
          Smith <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:markzzzsmith@gmail.com" target="_blank">markzzzsmith@gmail.com</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div class="HOEnZb">
              <div class="h5">On 17 September 2015 at 09:57, Noel Butler
                <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:noel.butler@ausics.net">noel.butler@ausics.net</a>>
                wrote:<br>
                > On 17/09/2015 09:37, Paul Brooks wrote:<br>
                ><br>
                > On 17/09/2015 7:56 AM, Skeeve Stevens wrote:<br>
                ><br>
                > I am saying that while the CVC should be like
                $2.... if they aggregated<br>
                > their PoI's, you'd need a lot less because it would
                scale much much more and<br>
                > it would actually costs less.<br>
                ><br>
                ><br>
                > Methinks you're confusing topology with charging
                model. If you negotiated<br>
                > your wholesale backhaul provider to just add up all
                the traffic on all the<br>
                > POI ports and charge you for the aggregate, rather
                than per physical port,<br>
                > it wouldn't matter how many actual POIs there were.<br>
                ><br>
                > This whole mess also seems to hang on two
                assumptions:<br>
                > 1) every ISP needs to service the whole national
                footprint<br>
                > 2) every ISP needs to charge the same uniform
                retail price all over the<br>
                > footprint.<br>
                ><br>
                > Are either of these true?<br>
                ><br>
                ><br>
                ><br>
                > Of course they are - unless you want to be blasted
                into extinction<br>
                ><br>
                > 1 - a necessity to compete/survive<br>
                ><br>
                > 2 - a necessity to compete/survive<br>
                ><br>
                > I'm truly amazed someone on THIS list assuming they
                have any RSP experience<br>
                > even asks such a question<br>
                ><br>
                ><br>
                <br>
              </div>
            </div>
            If small players think they can out capitalise and out scale
            of<br>
            economise much larger players, then they're never going to
            win.<br>
            <br>
            As a smaller RSP, If your only competitive advantage is your
            lower<br>
            price, then you're vulnerable to your competitors lowering
            their<br>
            prices. That is an easy and low effort decision by your
            competitors,<br>
            and if they have larger margins to do it, because their
            scales of<br>
            economy are larger and as they get larger volume discounts
            from their<br>
            suppliers, they have much more room to lower their costs.<br>
            <br>
            It is a race to the bottom, and since you're starting much
            closer to<br>
            the bottom than your competitors are, you'll lose (they will
            probably<br>
            get in trouble for using their market power to crush you,
            however you<br>
            may suffer a fatal blow before they get taken to court, the
            court case<br>
            occurs etc., etc.)<br>
            <br>
            You're far better off trying to find something that your
            competitors<br>
            can't or won't do, creating a barrier to entry. Then you
            have a unique<br>
            advantage (i.e., a natural monopoly), which means customers
            must come<br>
            to you to get it because they can't or can't easily get it
            from<br>
            anybody else, and you can charge what your customers are
            willing to<br>
            pay for your unique value, rather the same or a few
            percentage points<br>
            lower than your competitors' prices.<br>
            <br>
            If you don't think this works, have a think about how local
            pizza<br>
            shops manage to survive in competition to national pizza<br>
            chains/franchises, who will have lower costs. They're all<br>
            fundamentally selling pizza, so how do local pizza shops get
            away with<br>
            not only selling the same thing, but probably make a much
            bigger<br>
            profit when doing it?<br>
            <div class="HOEnZb">
              <div class="h5"><br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                ><br>
                ><br>
                > _______________________________________________<br>
                > AusNOG mailing list<br>
                > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
                > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog"
                  rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><br>
                ><br>
                _______________________________________________<br>
                AusNOG mailing list<br>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog"
                  rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
AusNOG mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>