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What are you on about Paul?<br>
<br>
It's like you take any crap piece of legislation government puts
through and attempt to implement the actual worst case (dream case
for the government) in every regard. I am astonished you have any
actual customers if this is your response to regulation.<br>
<br>
Site blocking has nothing whatsoever to do with customers. What's
more, case law (iiTrial) suggests that what you're proposing here is
not remotely what's required of an ISP who has customers infringing
copyright.<br>
<br>
Pull your head in and stop commenting on things about which you know
nothing.<br>
<br>
Justin.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 23/06/2015 6:41 pm, Paul Wilkins
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAMmROTJifMN1dn+ayNGe9+3yOEDb=gN7A3dobpJ_i6fnNnRi_Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>Paul,<br>
</div>
The point is, per 115A(2) which requires reasonableness,
115A(5e) which requires a proportionate response, and
115A(5i) which requires 115A to consider other remedies
available under the rest of the Copyright Act, the question
is, is it reasonable to switch off your access routers and
go home? In my opinion, the only reasonable reasonable and
proportionate remedy available is to terminate the user's
service.<br>
<br>
</div>
(I am not a lawyer. This is not legal opinion)<br>
<br>
</div>
Paul Wilkins<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 23 June 2015 at 17:59, Paul Brooks <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pbrooks-ausnog@layer10.com.au"
target="_blank">pbrooks-ausnog@layer10.com.au</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><span class="">
<div>On 23/06/2015 5:09 PM, Paul Wilkins wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>I haven't read the Copyright Act 1968 in its
entirety (and perhaps I should), but it looks
like (ianal), legal remedies are as:<br>
<br>
<div style="margin-left:40px">116AG (3)
For an infringement of copyright that occurs
in the course of the carrying out of a
Category A activity, the relief that a court
may grant against a carriage service provider
is limited to one or more of the following
orders: </div>
<p style="margin-left:40px">
(a) an order requiring the carriage service
provider to take reasonable steps to disable
access to an online location outside
Australia;</p>
<div style="margin-left:40px"> </div>
<p style="margin-left:40px">
(b) an order requiring the carriage service
provider to terminate a specified account.</p>
</div>
I doubt on the strength of that, courts will go
further than orders to terminate specific
accounts. What's a bit sneaky, is the courts may
rely on data retention records in identifying
infringing accounts.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</span> Huh? <br>
This has nothing to do with infringing accounts or
terminating users.<br>
<br>
A copyright holder goes to the courts and says 'I found
this website on these pages is hosting my movie that I
hold the copyright for. The site clearly has its primary
purpose to facilitate infringement of copyright. Please
issue an injunction to all the ISPs to have the site
blocked under Section 115A of the Copyright Act please'.<br>
<br>
You and all our colleagues on and off this list get the
court injunction requiring you to block access to
that/those websites for all your customers. No user
identified, no account to terminate.<br>
<br>
They may be preparing the submission to the courts to have
100/200/300+ sites blocked as we speak.<br>
<br>
If your only capability to comply to block access to those
hundreds of sites is to switch off your access routers and
go home, it might be an issue to ponder on and plan for a
better alternative.<span class="HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888"><br>
<br>
P.</font></span><span class=""><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 23 June 2015 at 15:05,
Will Dowling <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:will@autodeist.com"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:will@autodeist.com">will@autodeist.com</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"><span>> However, if
*you* are the first test case, how do you plan
to show to the court what you interpreted as
reasonable, and how you tried to use
reasonable means? The court order won't tell
you what 'reasonable' might mean, or what
measures might be considered unreasonable. The
content organisation that asked for the
injunction certainly won't tell you.<br>
<br>
</span>I’m more than certain the rights holders
will be lining up to tell you what they think is
“reasonable”.<br>
<br>
Which brings us back to who has the burden for
establishing it… likely it will be the courts
until precedent is set.<br>
<br>
<br>
Will Dowling<br>
<br>
E: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:will@autodeist.com"
target="_blank">will@autodeist.com</a><br>
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