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No.<br>
<br>
You have to meet ALL of 187A(3) (a), (b), and (c).<br>
<br>
(a) means you're service provides communications over wire and/or
wireless<br>
(b) you have to be either a carrier (very specific meaning), an ISP
(also clearly outlined), or some other declared service (there are
none at the moment)<br>
(c) you have to own the infrastructure in Australia which provides
the service<br>
<br>
None of this is related to IP in any way shape or form.<br>
<br>
Justin.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 17/06/2015 12:48 AM, Paul Wilkins
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAMmROTKy5CDdQo5Dn==86C3e1C2qXRF9n3TCwFvb=8HbqDmYEA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Mark,<br>
</div>
The relevant section is 187A(3):<br>
<br>
<div style="margin-left:40px"><span
style="font-family:monospace,monospace">(3) This Part
applies to a service if:<br>
(a) it is a service for carrying communications, or
enabling<br>
communications to be carried, by means of guided or<br>
unguided electromagnetic energy or both; and<br>
(b) it is a service:<br>
(i) operated by a carrier; or<br>
(ii) operated by an internet service provider (within
the<br>
meaning of Schedule 5 to the Broadcasting Services Act<br>
1992); or<br>
(iii) of a kind for which a declaration under
subsection (3A)<br>
is in force; and<br>
(c) the person operating the service owns or operates,
in<br>
Australia, infrastructure that enables the provision
of any of<br>
its relevant services;</span><br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
Which means data link and network services. Which for IP
means you put an IP on the customer CE, or PSTN, you provide
a number and send dial tone.<br>
<br>
</div>
(I am not a lawyer, this is not expert opinion)<br>
<br>
</div>
Paul Wilkins<br>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 17 June 2015 at 00:21, Mark Newton <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:newton@atdot.dotat.org" target="_blank">newton@atdot.dotat.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>The Act doesn't care about IP, nor does it pay the
slightest bit of attention to protocol layers. It
doesn't even care whether you provide Internet access:
you could be delivering IPX WAN or SNA or Banyan Vines
or a remote ISDN PABX for all AGD cares.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The Act already has a clear "demarc", in Section 4,
which defines Carriage Service Provider.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Are you getting legal advice in parallel with trying
to speculate about this on ausnog?</div>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<div><br>
</div>
<div> - mark<br>
<br>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</font></span>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div>On 16 Jun 2015, at 11:25 pm, Paul Wilkins <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paulwilkins369@gmail.com"
target="_blank">paulwilkins369@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>Paul,<br>
</div>
I don't think we do disagree. There ought to
be a demarc which says this business is in
or outside the scope of the Act.<br>
<br>
</div>
That demarc is where you provide, as a
service, communications via electromagnetic
radiation, ie. layer 2/3 services, ie. someone
pays you to put an IP on their CE. Layer 1
services are not covered, as you point out. Or
have I overlooked something you see in
contention?<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>(I am not a lawyer, this is not expert
opinion)<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Paul Wilkins<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 16 June 2015 at
22:13, Paul Brooks <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pbrooks-ausnog@layer10.com.au"
target="_blank">pbrooks-ausnog@layer10.com.au</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>
<div>
<div>On 16/06/2015 3:30 PM, Mike
Everest wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi
Paul, all,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div
style="border:none;border-left:solid
blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
4.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:5.25pt">Per
my understanding
(having read the
relevant sections of
the Retention Act and
the Telecommunications
Act (the definitions
are somewhat
recursive, but it
eventually comes down
to whether you provide
a service for carrying
communications via
electromagnetic waves
- whether or not you
have a carrier
license).<span
style="color:#1f497d"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">That’s
essentially the
definition of a
carrier, and in
Australia, if you
are a carrier then
you need to be a
licensed one – so,
moot point maybe ;-)</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
NO NO NO! To both of you!<br>
<br>
Being a carrier has NOTHING to do with
providing IP addresses, or services.<br>
<br>
A carrier license is a license to dig
holes. Its a civil construction permit, to
build and/or own the underlying cables or
radio links. Nothing more.<br>
<br>
If you *operate* the cables, or services
provided over the cables (yours or cables
you lease from someone else) then you are
*also* a CSP - Carriage Service Provider.<br>
You don't need a carrier license to own
buildings, you don't need one to own the
equipment that lights up the cables, you
don't need one to provide services, you
don't need one to lease a connection from
someone else. You only need a carrier
license if you own the underlying
cable/radio link as an asset (and its more
than 600 metres, or crossing a property
boundary), or you want to build a new one.<br>
<br>
To the point - being a licensed carrier
has NOTHING to do with data retention. A
licensed carrier, that doesn't provide
services, has nothing to retain.<span><font
color="#888888"><br>
<br>
Paul.<br>
</font></span></div>
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