<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Nobody thinks data retention only applies to licensed carriers. It applies to licensed carriers and Carriage Service Providers (which have never needed licenses)</div><div><br></div><div>Where the confusion seems to be arising is in whether companies represented in this forum think they are carriage service providers.</div><div><br></div><div>I'm a bit perplexed by that, because the carriage service provider concept hasn't changed since it was laid into law in the mid 1990s. To be confused about the definition of a carriage service provider is to be confused about <i>the fundamental regulatory foundation of the industry from which you are earning your coin.</i> I can think of no other industry segment in the nation who would be so blazé about the laws which enable it to function; it'd be like car dealers trying to conduct business for 20 years while failing to understand how vehicle registration works.</div><div><br></div><div>For the avoidance of doubt: if you do not connect end users' own premises to a network, you are probably not a carriage service provider.</div><div><br></div><div>Web host? Not a carriage service provider.</div><div>Email de-spamming service? Not a CSP.</div><div>Webmail? No.</div><div>VPN provider? Not even close.</div><div>Telstra Wholesale ADSL customer who only uses ADSL tails to link their own offices together? Data retention need bother you not.</div><div><br></div><div>VISP? Yes, you're a CSP, you lose.</div><div>Telstra Wholesale ADSL customer who supplies service to the general public? Start buying hard disks, you lose too.</div><div>ISP who supplies service to the general public who also happens to run web hosting and email? You poor thing, buy a SAN, I hope you don't forget to firewall it.</div><div><br></div><div>If you participate in this industry without being able to tell the difference between a CSP and a non-CSP, you are in a commercially perilous situation. The Government is unlikely to permit your business to survive with that kind of ignorance. Get legal advice, learn about your industry, and apply <i>careful</i> thought and attention to what data retention means to your ability to generate profit.</div><div><br></div><div>More generally: if you're providing Internet infrastructure and you're not subject to data retention, start having a good hard think about how you can use your lower cost base and lower regulatory obligations to eke commercial advantage from those who are.</div><div><br></div><div> - mark</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>--<div>Tiny screen, imaginary keyboard.</div><div><br></div></div><div><br>On 16 Jun 2015, at 16:14, Paul Wilkins <<a href="mailto:paulwilkins369@gmail.com">paulwilkins369@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Mike,<br></div>That's exactly my point, the remit (if you dig up the actual definitions) gets a broader interpretation than the definition of carrier. Anyone who thinks this applies just to carriers is in for a nasty surprise.<br><br></div>(I am not a lawyer, this is not expert opinion)<br><br></div>Paul Wilkins<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 16 June 2015 at 15:30, Mike Everest <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mike@duxtel.com" target="_blank">mike@duxtel.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" lang="EN-AU"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi Paul, all,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt"><div><div><div><div><span class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:5.25pt">Per my understanding (having read the relevant sections of the Retention Act and the Telecommunications Act (the definitions are somewhat recursive, but it eventually comes down to whether you provide a service for carrying communications via electromagnetic waves - whether or not you have a carrier license).<span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></span><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">That’s essentially the definition of a carrier, and in Australia, if you are a carrier then you need to be a licensed one – so, moot point maybe ;-)<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Cheers!<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br><br>Mike.<u></u><u></u></font></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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