<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_4654"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_4719">I also don't agree. IPv4 and IPv6 can co-exist, and therefore there can be (and is) a gradual transition. There is no requirement for a flag day, and in particular that was one of the design goals for IPv6.*</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_4654"><span><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_4654"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_4892">I try to be a "end-user" at home, because I don't expect non-technical end-users to understand how networking and the Internet works like I do. In other words, at home, I normally just expect things to just work. I've had a fully enabled IPv4 and IPv6 dual stack network at home for the last 3 years, and it just works. I only know about what gets sent over IPv6, and which of my devices support IPv6, because I go looking to find out out of interest, not because IPv6 is unreliable.</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_4654"><span><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_4654">This is the reason I support the Happy Eyeballs approach. If I recall correctly, the idea of making multiple connections over IPv4 and IPv6 respectively was proposed by Fred Baker at least a year or so before HE was proposed. At the time I though it seemed quite wasteful. However, thinking about it more, making things more user friendly always costs more resources. Yet usability is a very desirable property, because it means people don't have to care about how things work - instead they just do. That is and should be our goal ("We worry about the technology so you don't have to.").</div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_4654"><span><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_4654"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_4756">* The last flag day occurred when the Internet protocols switched from NCP to IPv4 on January 1st, 1983, and even that wasn't 100% successful. Some of the designers of IPv6 were involved and have long memories.</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_4653"><span><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_4652"><span><br></span></div><br> <div style="font-family: Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_4607"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_4606"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_4605"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_4651"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_4604"> <b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_4603"><span style="font-weight:bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_4602">From:</span></b> Paul Wilkins <paulwilkins369@gmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> "ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog@lists.ausnog.net> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, 31 March 2015, 15:40<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [AusNOG] IPv6<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_5296"><br><div id="yiv9603461988"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_5299"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_5298"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_5297">Please don't regard this as trolling, but there is not going to be, and cannot be, a gradual transition to IPv6. Consider this a state problem, where the current state is ipv4, and we want to move to ipv6. We can only make the transition when the marginal utility of ipv6 is greater than for ipv4, ie. dU/d$(ipv6) > dU/d$(ipv4) for users, carriers, and content providers. This will only happen with a forcing change. For the foreseable future, the lack of entropy precludes any transition from ipv4.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>Paul Wilkins<br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv9603461988gmail_extra" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_5300"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv9603461988gmail_quote" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_5301">On 31 March 2015 at 13:45, David Beveridge <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:dave@bevhost.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:dave@bevhost.com">dave@bevhost.com</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv9603461988gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_5304"><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yiv9603461988yqt3246831695" id="yiv9603461988yqt10546"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_5303"><div class="yiv9603461988gmail_extra" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427778551338_5302"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv9603461988gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 10:53 AM, Mark ZZZ Smith <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au" target="_blank" href="mailto:markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au">markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv9603461988gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;"><div dir="ltr"><span>When was that?</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div>about two years ago. </div><blockquote class="yiv9603461988gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;"><div dir="ltr"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial, sans-serif;font-size:small;"> </span></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class="yiv9603461988gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;"> <div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;"><span class="yiv9603461988"> </span><div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> David Beveridge <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:dave@bevhost.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:dave@bevhost.com">dave@bevhost.com</a>><br clear="none"></font></div><span class="yiv9603461988"></span><div><div><div><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div>I hosted several sites on dual stack servers for some time, </div><div><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div>
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