<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15351" dir="ltr">I'd have preferred</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15351" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15351" dir="ltr">+2^128</div><br> <div style="font-family: Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15354"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15353"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15352"> <hr size="1"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15404"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Colin Stubbs <colin.stubbs@equatetechnologies.com.au><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> "AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog@lists.ausnog.net> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, 27 March 2015, 10:47<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [AusNOG] IPv6<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15405"><br><div id="yiv1153156227"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15407"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15406"><br clear="none">+999,999,999,999,999,999.999<br clear="none"><div class="yiv1153156227gmail_extra" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15409"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv1153156227gmail_quote" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15408">On 27 March 2015 at 09:41, Mark ZZZ Smith <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au" target="_blank" href="mailto:markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au">markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv1153156227gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15414"><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yiv1153156227yqt3921649315" id="yiv1153156227yqt69634"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15413"><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15412"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15411"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15410">I'm afraid you are wrong. If you don't understand why, then you don't really understand the problem.</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span><br clear="none"></span></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"> <div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15419"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15418"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15417"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15416"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Chris Hurley <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:chris@minopher.net.au" target="_blank" href="mailto:chris@minopher.net.au">chris@minopher.net.au</a>><br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15415">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a> <br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, 26 March 2015, 23:13<br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> [AusNOG] IPv6<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15425"><br clear="none"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15424"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15423"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15422"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15421"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15420">I could be wrong (and I have been before ;-), but the biggest mistake in IP6 was not making it backward compatible with IP4. Hence the resistance to take it up. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15426">Yes there are some good technical agruements with substance as to why we should make the quantum leap. But they forget the human lag factor. I.e it's not broken don't fix, It costs money, where's my return etc. </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15427"><br clear="none"></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15428">That being said and the fact we have now "exhausted" IP4 addresses, what are the realistic options? Bare in mind consumers/companies only really care about "Do I have internet access". They neither know or care about the IP. They just want their porn, don't laugh. Given the number of outside hours clients trying to get support all to true.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1427412496404_15429"><br clear="none"></div><div>Personally I thought the NBN was the perfect vehicle to mandate IP6, but the powers that be said you can run what ever you like eg AppleTalk for all we care. Seriously you want 21st Century tech but prepared to run old technology. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Mind you people have been talking about this issue for many years.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><div>Regards,</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Chris Hurley BE (Elec), MBA</div><div>Director</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>******************************************************</div><div> Minopher Pty Ltd Phone: 1300 730 531 </div><div> 15 Nevana Street Fax: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">+61-3-9763 3309</a> </div><div> Scoresby, 3179 Victoria </div><div> Australia </div><div>******************************************************</div><div><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div><div><br clear="none"></div><span></span><div style="font-family:Geneva;font-size:10pt;text-align:left;color:black;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt;"><span style="font-weight:bold;">From: </span> Michael Biber <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:mbiber@ipv6forum.com.au" target="_blank" href="mailto:mbiber@ipv6forum.com.au">mbiber@ipv6forum.com.au</a>><br clear="none"><span style="font-weight:bold;">Organization: </span> IPv6 Forum Australia<br clear="none"><span style="font-weight:bold;">Reply-To: </span> <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:mbiber@ipv6forum.com.au" target="_blank" href="mailto:mbiber@ipv6forum.com.au">mbiber@ipv6forum.com.au</a>><br clear="none"><span style="font-weight:bold;">Date: </span> Thursday, 26 March 2015 1:53 PM<br clear="none"><span style="font-weight:bold;">To: </span> "'Beeson, Ayden'" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ABeeson@csu.edu.au" target="_blank" href="mailto:ABeeson@csu.edu.au">ABeeson@csu.edu.au</a>>, <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:kris@cloudcentral.com.au" target="_blank" href="mailto:kris@cloudcentral.com.au">kris@cloudcentral.com.au</a>>, "<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>><br clear="none"><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject: </span> Re: [AusNOG] Data Retention and CGNAT - educational exercise<br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><div lang="EN-AU"><div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Here’s a list of IPv6 Only web sites.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://ipv6.cybernode.com/list-of-ipv6-only-sites">http://ipv6.cybernode.com/list-of-ipv6-only-sites</a></span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">It’s only reachable via IPv6 though 8^)</span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">I was told there are Indian government web sites and gaming servers that are only reachable via v6 but I can’t verify that. Also quite a few dark sites I imagine.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Most everything is dual stacked.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Mike Biber</span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">IPv6now</span></div><div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;"><div><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;"> AusNOG [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Beeson, Ayden<br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 26 March 2015 9:58 AM<br clear="none"><b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:'kris@cloudcentral.com.au" target="_blank" href="mailto:'kris@cloudcentral.com.au">'kris@cloudcentral.com.au</a>'; <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:'ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:'ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">'ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>'<br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Data Retention and CGNAT - educational exercise</span></div></div></div><div> </div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">(Disclaimer: Apologies, I’m going to be “that guy” and argue against that line. Don’t take this email as a flame, it’s more about correcting a misconception that seems to be quite prevalent and I understand there are a lot of factors that go into deploying / not deploying IPv6 now that I will not cover.)</span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">That statement is part of the problem IMHO and I’ve seen it multiple times on this list and elsewhere.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">IPv6 won’t go anywhere until the majority get it turned on. It has no direct technical relation to IPv4 other than being the replacement for it. Blaming a lack of IPv6 deployment progress on “IPv4 not being broken yet” is self-defeating, it’s the same as saying “my water pipes still work even though they have a few big cracks leaking, why should the council replace them until the water completely stops flowing?” or “nobody else bothers to put rubbish in a bin, so I won’t either, plus I invented this new thing to add onto my shoes to make me higher to keep out of all the litter on the ground, everybody else needs to buy some now too”</span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Unfortunately CGNAT is now a requirement for a lot of companies, due in large part to a lack of progress on IPv6, but it doesn’t go both ways. But as has been said before, most users don’t understand or care how their internet connection works, just that it does, so the onus is on the ISP’s etc. to push these things along for the benefit of everybody. Again as has been said, there is very little commercial incentive to do this, but it’s really going to be minimal capex to implement with very little additional opex spending so it shouldn’t be as big a cost issue as it may seem, at least for basic connectivity for servers etc.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Obviously we can’t argue “don’t do CGNAT” now, we are well past that, but I would say that anybody looking at or doing CGNAT should at least have an IPv6 deployment plan they are actively progressing, even if it’s slowly.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">The problem with IPv4 is that we can continue to do CGNAT theoretically indefinitely, though the logging required will continue to increase and the port ranges that are allowed for per user will continue to shrink until it becomes practically untenable. The issue is in the meantime we are stifling innovation and strangling available uses for the internet. In the next few years we will see a continued explosion of devices that will need IPv6 to be able to truly be used to their full potential, but a lot of those will just continue to not work or be underutilised until the network under them has the capacity to handle them gracefully.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">On the topic of IPv6 only hosts, I have heard there are ISP’s in China and Europe that are doing this but I have nothing concrete, anybody know if that’s fact or not / have a link? I suspect given I can’t find any info at all it’s not real, but I’d be interested to know…</span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">TL;DR – IPv6 only works when everybody does IPv6, do CGNAT if you have to, but make it clear to your management (or to yourself) that’s it’s not a long term strategy and make sure you have some sort of IPv6 plan being worked on for everybody’s sake.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Thanks,</span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Ayden Beeson<i> </i></span><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"></span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> AusNOG [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Kristoffer Sheather @ CloudCentral<br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 26 March 2015 8:50 AM<br clear="none"><b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Data Retention and CGNAT - educational exercise</span></div><div> </div><div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">IPv6 won't go anywhere until IPv4 doesn't work anymore. That day is not today despite the numerous arguments and flames I expect to receive subsequent to this message.</span></div></div><div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;"> </span></div></div><div><div><div><span style="font-size:10pt;color:black;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">Regards,<br clear="none">Kristoffer Sheather</span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;"><br clear="none"> </span></div></div></div><div align="center" style="text-align:center;"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;"></span><hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"></div><div><div><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;">From</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;">: "Scott Weeks" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:surfer@mauigateway.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:surfer@mauigateway.com">surfer@mauigateway.com</a>><br clear="none"><b>Sent</b>: Thursday, March 26, 2015 8:42 AM<br clear="none"><b>To</b>: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br clear="none"><b>Subject</b>: Re: [AusNOG] Data Retention and CGNAT - educational exercise</span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;"> </span></div></div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">> Reduce the amount of data to zero - put this energy into<br clear="none">> deploying IPv6 instead of CG-NAT. You know you should.<br clear="none">> You know you can.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">:: Oh boy, I am so sick of people harping on like this. I<br clear="none">:: challenge you to run one single internet customer IPv6<br clear="none">:: only (no translations) and see how long it lasts. Just<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Dual stack is not doable? I thought that's what he meant<br clear="none">by deploy IPv6. Maybe I need more beer? Again? ;-)<br clear="none"><br clear="none">scott<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">AusNOG mailing list<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">AusNOG mailing list<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><br clear="none"> </span></div></div><div><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.csu.edu.au/" title="Charles Sturt University"><span style="text-decoration:none;"><img src="cid:6ZJVBCW2UaH2fHyjE2YV" alt="Charles Sturt University" height="60" border="0" width="210" data-id="73c9fbcd-5ff0-1e66-0e39-badb3003a6b2"></span></a></div><div><span style="font-size:6pt;color:rgb(196,33,41);font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">| ALBURY-WODONGA | BATHURST | CANBERRA | DUBBO | GOULBURN | MELBOURNE | ONTARIO | ORANGE | PORT MACQUARIE | SYDNEY | WAGGA WAGGA |</span></div><div align="center" style="text-align:center;"><hr align="center" size="3" width="100%"></div><div><b><span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">LEGAL NOTICE</span></b><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">This email (and any attachment) is confidential and is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only. 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