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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 25/03/2015 10:46 AM, Paul Julian
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thanks Paul,
that’s a good reply, appreciate it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I suppose the
scope I am looking at with this is two private companies who
want a link between them via us, one a manufacturing
company, the other a distributor, they are separate entities
to us, and they will be passing their own private data
across that link, basically we won’t be providing any data
as such just the medium to connect them together, so just
trying to understand what our requirements may be in the
future regarding this.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, seek your own qualified
advice if it matters. The courts probably won't take 'but I heard it
on AusNOG' kindly.<br>
that said....<br>
The data flow is immaterial - what matters is who is renting who the
link? who is the underlying licensed carrier that owns the link?<br>
who is leasing the link from the underlying carrier, and on-leasing
it to...you? your customers directly?<br>
If you are renting/leasing/selling the actual links between you and
one or both of those two private companies to those private
companies, you're a CSP.<br>
If those companies are each buying/leasing the links from someone
else in order to get to you, then that 'someone else' is a CSP.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:4f40b505-0c63-4397-a632-d350844a9f18@oxygennetworks.com.au"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">We still
provide other typical ISP services to other customers and I
realise that the normal rules will apply there but just
interested in how a link like this might fit the new rules.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I am thinking
that from a data retention perspective we don’t need to do
anything as we aren’t providing any “services” such as
voice, email or Internet, but I would imagine that we would
still have to satisfy interception requirements as a
licensed carrier.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Connectivity between two places is a Carriage Service. Even if no
data flows, even if you provide no value-add other than forwarding
packets (or even not forward packets).<br>
If you are 'providing' the links to these two private companies to
provide them connectivity (whether or not there exists a contract,
whether or not money changes hands) , then they are your customers,
you are providing a carriage service, and the contract and customer
details itself is communications data to be retained from the
perspective of data retention, as are the details of the
configuration of the (permanent?) link(s), such as IP addresses
assigned to each end, bandwidth of operation, etc. <br>
<br>
If they are leasing the links from someone else, and *all* you are
doing is providing a couple of equipment ports for those links to
connect into, then you are arguably in the same state as a web-host
operation, and may be classed as an end-user under the Broadcast
Services Act rather than an ISP, and not be required to keep data.<br>
<br>
Bottom line - its complicated. Usually, its all about the links, not
the purpose. Consult a lawyer.<br>
<br>
Paul.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:4f40b505-0c63-4397-a632-d350844a9f18@oxygennetworks.com.au"
type="cite">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-AU"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-AU"
lang="EN-US"> Paul Brooks
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:pbrooks-ausnog@layer10.com.au">mailto:pbrooks-ausnog@layer10.com.au</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 25 March 2015 10:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:paul@oxygennetworks.com.au">paul@oxygennetworks.com.au</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net">ausnog@ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Peering Providers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 24/03/2015 11:46 PM, Paul Julian
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Question to the knowledgeable….<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is a business which does only peering
between service providers classed as a service provider
themselves ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In other words if you are only passing
data between one entity and another, and you don’t provide
any services except for the connectivity to pass that data
would that still classify you as a service provider ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I suppose an example would be a peering
company like Megaport (just an example), if they are just
passing data through from people to other people without
doing anything with that data or providing any services like
email of website hosting etc, are they are service provider
?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sorry if it’s a stupid question but I am
curious.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-AU">Its
not a stupid question - but if you need to know for a
compliance/legal/money reason where the cost of getting it
wrong is higher than the cost of asking a lawyer, you should
consult a real lawyer.<br>
In your example, the peering company is renting out the port
and the capability for passing traffic through, so they are
providing services - however they aren't 'carriage
services'.<br>
<br>
You didn't say if the other service providers are customers
or suppliers of yours - who is the 'supplier' matters.<br>
<br>
If you 're happy to interpret it yourself, check out <br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ta1997214/s87.html">http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ta1997214/s87.html</a><br>
<br>
note 'public' includes any individual or organisation not
within your own organisation or immediate-circle - including
other arms-length service providers.<br>
<br>
If you aren't providing any of the links (carriage services)
between your premises and your (other service providers)
premises - i.e. they are bringing their own links - then you
might not be a carriage service provider.<br>
<br>
<br>
P.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-AU"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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