<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0cm;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0cm;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
color:black;}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle23
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Mate I agree, but they want us to “think” that they have taken it into account and will help pay for the costs, whatever they might be, which we still won’t know until a set agenda and plan is actually drawn up as the new legislation and enforced.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I think as discussed here, one of the only ways we may be able to recover some costs is to charge for access to the data.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The other interesting thing I saw in the amendments was that ISP’s will be forced to delete the data after the mandatory retention period, this will be interesting as to how they think they can enforce that, just one of many complicating issues I think though.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> Matt Perkins [mailto:matt@spectrum.com.au] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 24 March 2015 10:32 PM<br><b>To:</b> Paul Julian; ausnog@lists.ausnog.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] CA Data Retention costs letter to Ministers<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Paul,<br> Im sure that will work fine for the big guys. But as there is a written agreement (code for secret agreement) It's unlikely we will ever know how much each of us will get. Im still betting on Zero. Im sure just all the work it will take to get $1 will add up to more then the costs of implementing the proposed retention system for most small CSP's<br> <br>Matt.<br><br>On 24/03/2015 10:27 pm, Paul Julian wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Directly from the amendments Matt</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>187KB Commonwealth must make a grant of financial assistance to service providers <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>(1) The Commonwealth must make a grant of financial assistance to a service provider for the purpose of assisting the service provider to comply with the additional costs that service provider’s incur in complying with the service provider’s obligations under this Part. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>(2) The terms and conditions on which that financial assistance is granted are to be set out in a written agreement between the Commonwealth and the service provider. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>(3) An agreement under subsection (2) may be entered into on behalf of the Commonwealth by the Minister. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>[costs must be paid]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> AusNOG [<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Matt Perkins<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 24 March 2015 10:24 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] CA Data Retention costs letter to Ministers</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Ha,<br> If we see one cent I would be very surprised . The money they are talking about im sure is all earmarked for regulation and enforcement of the new regime. As well as education inside government for access seekers as to what info they can get. <br><br>Oh not to forget the TV Ad campaign telling the public why we need it. <br><br>Wasn't this government committed to slashing read tape. I guess just another lie. <br><br>If we see one cent in compensation other then the normal tax deductions I will dance naked on a table at the next IXAU drinks. - Come to think of it that's not much of a threat - disregard my last. <br><br>Matt<br><br><br>On 24/03/2015 10:16 pm, Mark Newton wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>No. Brandis was asked about that tonight in the Senate. He says it's cabinet-in-confidence, and a matter for the budget.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>They're going to wing it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> - mark<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 24 Mar 2015, at 10:10 pm, Russell Langton <<a href="mailto:russell3901@gmail.com">russell3901@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Hi All,<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>/Apologies if this is general knowledge, but havn't seen anything.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Following the previous industry letter, is there any confirmation about the breakdown in costs of who will pay?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Geordie Guy <<a href="mailto:elomis@gmail.com" target="_blank">elomis@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p>The bill will pass tonight. Much, much too little, much, much too late.<o:p></o:p></p><p>With any luck someone will pass an ammendment to cover the costs of AusNOG subscribers ordering new business cards with "Government Storage Administrator" as the title.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Well done guys.<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 24/03/2015 7:47 PM, "Shane Chrisp" <<a href="mailto:shane@2000cn.com.au" target="_blank">shane@2000cn.com.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>Thought this may be of interest to those who have not seen it.<br><br>Regards<br>Shane<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><a href="https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/privacy/go-dark-against-data-retention/go-dark-against-data-retention?t=njyZ5SjZD&utm_content=7635&utm_campaign=You%20can%27t%20handle%20the%20data&utm_source=blast&utm_medium=email" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 id="_x0000_i1025" src="http://cdn.getup.org.au/image_7889_full.jpg?t=njyZ5SjZD" alt="Go dark"></span></a><br><br>Shane – <br><br>It's happening. The Government's data retention scheme looks set to pass the Senate tonight, with Labor's support. If this happens, it's a terrible outcome for Australians, and the media and whistleblowers who keep us informed. <br><br>This scheme is rushed, costly, ineffective, and against the public interest. A lazy amendment from the ALP - purportedly to prevent this dodgy data bill from having a freezing effect on the media - has as many holes in it as a slice of Swiss cheese. It leaves journalists and whistleblowers largely unprotected,<sup>1</sup> and will see every one of us treated as a potential suspect. Essentially, it punishes the wrong people. But as the Government and Labor team up to rush the legislation through the Senate, we have a way of getting their attention by illustrating just how problematic this bill really is. <br><br><b><a href="https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/privacy/go-dark-against-data-retention/go-dark-against-data-retention?t=njyZ5SjZD&utm_content=7635&utm_campaign=You%20can%27t%20handle%20the%20data&utm_source=blast&utm_medium=email" target="_blank">Can you join us in 'going dark' against data retention tomorrow to protest the Government's dangerous and ineffective scheme?</a></b> <br><br>The message we're sending is clear. In its haste to rush these broad sweeping laws, <b>the Government's costly scheme has targeted all of us while ignoring just how easy it is to circumvent data retention.</b> The truth is, anyone who wants to protect their privacy (yes, this includes people with something to hide) has a huge range of perfectly legal options to do so, including simply avoiding Australian service providers. Now that's just bad for business! <br><br>The impact of this is that Australians familiar with technology will easily be able to protect their data, while those that aren't as comfortable with newer technology will bear the brunt of the risks associated with data retention. <br><br><b>Across Australia tomorrow, citizens will be showing the government and Labor that this law will be another costly white elephant that doesn't make us any safer.</b> <br><br><b>Click here to sign up and learn how to go dark: <a href="https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/privacy/go-dark-against-data-retention/go-dark-against-data-retention?t=njyZ5SjZD&utm_content=7635&utm_campaign=You%20can%27t%20handle%20the%20data&utm_source=blast&utm_medium=email" target="_blank">http://www.getup.org.au/dark</a></b> <br><br>Alycia, for the GetUp team. <br><br>PS: If you've just got a moment, <b><a href="http://cdn.getup.org.au/991-PROF-PIC-%281%29-%281%29.jpg?t=njyZ5SjZD&utm_content=7635&utm_campaign=You%20can%27t%20handle%20the%20data&utm_source=blast&utm_medium=email" target="_blank">change your Facebook and Twitter profile picture to this image to help spread the word.</a></b> <br><br>PPS: Even the Government's Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull understands how important metadata is and how easy it is to avoid scrutiny. He has fessed up to using an instant messaging app which avoids retention, and joked last year that private networks (VPNs) could be used to circumvent data retention laws. By contrast, our Prime Minister recalls never being that worried about metadata back when he was a journalist in the 1980's... at a time that pre-dated widespread internet and mobile phone use.<sup>2</sup> Go figure! <br><br><i>References</i> <br><br>[1] Data retention plan amended for journalists, but is it enough? The Conversation, 20th March 2015. <br>[2] Data retention: Journalists' union labels Tony Abbott's defence of metadata protections 'ludicrous', ABC News, Wednesday 18th March 2015.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>AusNOG mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>/* Matt Perkins <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> Direct 1300 137 379 Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd. <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> Office 1300 133 299 <a href="mailto:matt@spectrum.com.au">matt@spectrum.com.au</a> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> Level 6, 350 George Street Sydney 2000<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> PGP/GNUPG Public Key can be found at <a href="http://pgp.mit.edu">http://pgp.mit.edu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>*/<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>/* Matt Perkins <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> Direct 1300 137 379 Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd. <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> Office 1300 133 299 <a href="mailto:matt@spectrum.com.au">matt@spectrum.com.au</a> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> Level 6, 350 George Street Sydney 2000<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> PGP/GNUPG Public Key can be found at <a href="http://pgp.mit.edu">http://pgp.mit.edu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>*/<o:p></o:p></pre></div></body></html>