<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Yes the deletion thing is just weird.
Considering our company has for example radius logs which match
IP to customers that go back 12 years! They are going to make us
delete data we already have. I hope I dont miss a backup and wind
up paying back all my grant money in fines. More to the point.
Dont I have a tax obligation to keep those records longer then 2
years.<br>
<br>
Anyway im gong to get a bex and have a good lie down before I make
anymore commitments for the next party :)<br>
<br>
Matt<br>
<br>
<br>
On 24/03/2015 10:36 pm, Paul Julian wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:72a5d5cf-ab44-4008-90c1-156797b84778@oxygennetworks.com.au"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered
medium)">
<!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]-->
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0cm;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0cm;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
color:black;}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle23
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Mate
I agree, but they want us to “think” that they have taken it
into account and will help pay for the costs, whatever they
might be, which we still won’t know until a set agenda and
plan is actually drawn up as the new legislation and
enforced.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
think as discussed here, one of the only ways we may be able
to recover some costs is to charge for access to the data.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
other interesting thing I saw in the amendments was that
ISP’s will be forced to delete the data after the mandatory
retention period, this will be interesting as to how they
think they can enforce that, just one of many complicating
issues I think though.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"> Matt Perkins [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:matt@spectrum.com.au">mailto:matt@spectrum.com.au</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 24 March 2015 10:32 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Julian; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] CA Data Retention costs
letter to Ministers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul,<br>
Im sure that will work fine for the big guys. But as there
is a written agreement (code for secret agreement) It's
unlikely we will ever know how much each of us will get. Im
still betting on Zero. Im sure just all the work it will
take to get $1 will add up to more then the costs of
implementing the proposed retention system for most small
CSP's<br>
<br>
Matt.<br>
<br>
On 24/03/2015 10:27 pm, Paul Julian wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Directly
from the amendments Matt</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">187KB Commonwealth must make a grant of
financial assistance to service providers <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">(1) The Commonwealth must make a grant of
financial assistance to a service provider for the purpose
of assisting the service provider to comply with the
additional costs that service provider’s incur in complying
with the service provider’s obligations under this Part. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">(2) The terms and conditions on which
that financial assistance is granted are to be set out in a
written agreement between the Commonwealth and the service
provider. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">(3) An agreement under subsection (2) may
be entered into on behalf of the Commonwealth by the
Minister. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">[costs must be paid]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"> AusNOG [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Matt Perkins<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 24 March 2015 10:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] CA Data Retention costs
letter to Ministers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ha,<br>
If we see one cent I would be very surprised . The money
they are talking about im sure is all earmarked for
regulation and enforcement of the new regime. As well
as education inside government for access seekers as to
what info they can get. <br>
<br>
Oh not to forget the TV Ad campaign telling the public why
we need it. <br>
<br>
Wasn't this government committed to slashing read tape. I
guess just another lie. <br>
<br>
If we see one cent in compensation other then the normal
tax deductions I will dance naked on a table at the next
IXAU drinks. - Come to think of it that's not much of a
threat - disregard my last. <br>
<br>
Matt<br>
<br>
<br>
On 24/03/2015 10:16 pm, Mark Newton wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">No. Brandis was asked about that
tonight in the Senate. He says it's
cabinet-in-confidence, and a matter for the budget.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">They're going to wing it.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> - mark<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 24 Mar 2015, at 10:10 pm,
Russell Langton <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:russell3901@gmail.com">russell3901@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi
All,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">/Apologies if this is general
knowledge, but havn't seen anything.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Following the previous
industry letter, is there any confirmation about
the breakdown in costs of who will pay?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 8:41
PM, Geordie Guy <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:elomis@gmail.com" target="_blank">elomis@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The bill will pass tonight. Much, much too
little, much, much too late.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>With any luck someone will pass an ammendment to
cover the costs of AusNOG subscribers ordering new
business cards with "Government Storage
Administrator" as the title.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Well done guys.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 24/03/2015 7:47 PM,
"Shane Chrisp" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:shane@2000cn.com.au"
target="_blank">shane@2000cn.com.au</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
Thought this may be of interest to those
who have not seen it.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Shane<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/privacy/go-dark-against-data-retention/go-dark-against-data-retention?t=njyZ5SjZD&utm_content=7635&utm_campaign=You%20can%27t%20handle%20the%20data&utm_source=blast&utm_medium=email"
target="_blank"><span
style="text-decoration:none"><img
moz-do-not-send="true"
id="_x0000_i1025"
src="http://cdn.getup.org.au/image_7889_full.jpg?t=njyZ5SjZD"
alt="Go dark" border="0"></span></a><br>
<br>
Shane – <br>
<br>
It's happening. The Government's data
retention scheme looks set to pass the
Senate tonight, with Labor's support.
If this happens, it's a terrible
outcome for Australians, and the media
and whistleblowers who keep us
informed. <br>
<br>
This scheme is rushed, costly,
ineffective, and against the public
interest. A lazy amendment from the
ALP - purportedly to prevent this
dodgy data bill from having a freezing
effect on the media - has as many
holes in it as a slice of Swiss
cheese. It leaves journalists and
whistleblowers largely unprotected,<sup>1</sup>
and will see every one of us treated
as a potential suspect. Essentially,
it punishes the wrong people. But as
the Government and Labor team up to
rush the legislation through the
Senate, we have a way of getting their
attention by illustrating just how
problematic this bill really is. <br>
<br>
<b><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/privacy/go-dark-against-data-retention/go-dark-against-data-retention?t=njyZ5SjZD&utm_content=7635&utm_campaign=You%20can%27t%20handle%20the%20data&utm_source=blast&utm_medium=email"
target="_blank">Can you join us in
'going dark' against data
retention tomorrow to protest the
Government's dangerous and
ineffective scheme?</a></b> <br>
<br>
The message we're sending is clear. In
its haste to rush these broad sweeping
laws, <b>the Government's costly
scheme has targeted all of us while
ignoring just how easy it is to
circumvent data retention.</b> The
truth is, anyone who wants to protect
their privacy (yes, this includes
people with something to hide) has a
huge range of perfectly legal options
to do so, including simply avoiding
Australian service providers. Now
that's just bad for business! <br>
<br>
The impact of this is that Australians
familiar with technology will easily
be able to protect their data, while
those that aren't as comfortable with
newer technology will bear the brunt
of the risks associated with data
retention. <br>
<br>
<b>Across Australia tomorrow, citizens
will be showing the government and
Labor that this law will be another
costly white elephant that doesn't
make us any safer.</b> <br>
<br>
<b>Click here to sign up and learn how
to go dark: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/privacy/go-dark-against-data-retention/go-dark-against-data-retention?t=njyZ5SjZD&utm_content=7635&utm_campaign=You%20can%27t%20handle%20the%20data&utm_source=blast&utm_medium=email"
target="_blank">http://www.getup.org.au/dark</a></b>
<br>
<br>
Alycia, for the GetUp team. <br>
<br>
PS: If you've just got a moment, <b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://cdn.getup.org.au/991-PROF-PIC-%281%29-%281%29.jpg?t=njyZ5SjZD&utm_content=7635&utm_campaign=You%20can%27t%20handle%20the%20data&utm_source=blast&utm_medium=email"
target="_blank">change your
Facebook and Twitter profile
picture to this image to help
spread the word.</a></b> <br>
<br>
PPS: Even the Government's
Communications Minister Malcolm
Turnbull understands how important
metadata is and how easy it is to
avoid scrutiny. He has fessed up to
using an instant messaging app which
avoids retention, and joked last year
that private networks (VPNs) could be
used to circumvent data retention
laws. By contrast, our Prime Minister
recalls never being that worried about
metadata back when he was a journalist
in the 1980's... at a time that
pre-dated widespread internet and
mobile phone use.<sup>2</sup> Go
figure! <br>
<br>
<i>References</i> <br>
<br>
[1] Data retention plan amended for
journalists, but is it enough? The
Conversation, 20th March 2015. <br>
[2] Data retention: Journalists' union
labels Tony Abbott's defence of
metadata protections 'ludicrous', ABC
News, Wednesday 18th March 2015.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
AusNOG mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net"
target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog"
target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
AusNOG mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog"
target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
AusNOG mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>AusNOG mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>/* Matt Perkins <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> Direct 1300 137 379 Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd. <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> Office 1300 133 299 <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:matt@spectrum.com.au">matt@spectrum.com.au</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> Level 6, 350 George Street Sydney 2000<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> PGP/GNUPG Public Key can be found at <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://pgp.mit.edu">http://pgp.mit.edu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>*/<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>/* Matt Perkins <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> Direct 1300 137 379 Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd. <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> Office 1300 133 299 <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:matt@spectrum.com.au">matt@spectrum.com.au</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> Level 6, 350 George Street Sydney 2000<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> PGP/GNUPG Public Key can be found at <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://pgp.mit.edu">http://pgp.mit.edu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>*/<o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
/* Matt Perkins
Direct 1300 137 379 Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd.
Office 1300 133 299 <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:matt@spectrum.com.au">matt@spectrum.com.au</a>
Level 6, 350 George Street Sydney 2000
PGP/GNUPG Public Key can be found at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://pgp.mit.edu">http://pgp.mit.edu</a>
*/
</pre>
</body>
</html>