<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>And by Legal Advice Paul means a real lawyer with telco experience. I would suggest Thomson Geer or DLA Piper. </div><div><br><div>John Lindsay</div></div><div>Former regulatory and compliance guy</div><div><br>On 1 Mar 2015, at 8:54 pm, Paul Brooks <<a href="mailto:pbrooks-ausnog@layer10.com.au">pbrooks-ausnog@layer10.com.au</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Lets make this simple - but if you
think it *won't* apply to you, you should consult legal advice to
make sure.<br>
<br>
See definition of Carriage Service Provider in the Telco Act, and
definition of ISP in the Broadcasting Services Act Schedule 5.<br>
<br>
If you provide a carriage service to the public (i.e. not your own
staff), you're a service provider.<br>
If you arrange for another CSP to provide services to the public,
you're a service provider<br>
If you resell or wholesale another CSP's services to sell services
to the public, you're a service provider.<br>
if you supply, or propose
to supply<a href="http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/bsa1992214/s146b.html#supply"></a>,
an internet carriage service to the public, you're an <b><i>internet
service provider </i></b>. <br>
There is no registration requirement to be considered to be a
Carriage Service Provider, no license - if you provide services,
you are a CSP, if you provide access to the Internet, you are an
ISP, which makes you a service provider, and the new legislation
applies to you.<br>
<br>
There is no size threshold - it applies to the big guys, the
little guys, the single person operating from a garage with a
handful of customers.<br>
<br>
For pure hosting providers - the Broadcasting Services Act says 'Note:
If a company makes internet content available for access on the
internet, and an individual obtains access to the content using an
internet carriage service, the company and the individual are
end-users in relation to the carriage of the content by the
internet carriage service.'<br>
....so you might not be captured, but you should consult legal
advice on that.<br>
<br>
Paul.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 27/02/2015 6:10 PM, Shaun McGuane wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:439dc5f18a4d46b2a43e7c587f93b102@IHM-CAM-E13M02.prdhosting.local" type="cite">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi
Gents,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">A
quick question on this one.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">What
is the definition of service provider?
<br>
<br>
Is this only a requirement for licensed carriers or does it
extend through the little guys
<br>
in hosting at the end of the food chain?<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Shaun</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> AusNOG
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Wilkins<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 27 February 2015 5:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Welcome to Metadata Retention<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">There's 2
recommendations that go to requirements for storage of
metadata, which are very much a work in progress:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:15.0pt"><span style="font-size:15.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Recommendation
10<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:15.0pt"><span style="font-size:15.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The
Committee recommends that the Explanatory Memorandum to
the Telecommunications (Interception and Access)
Amendment (Data Retention) Bill 2014 clarify the
requirements for service providers with regard to the
retention, de-identification or destruction of data once
the two year retention period has expired<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:15.0pt"><span style="font-size:15.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Recommendation
37<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:15.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The
Committee recommends that the Telecommunications
(Interception and Access) Amendment (Data Retention)
Bill 2014 be amended to require service providers to
encrypt telecommunications data that has been retained
for the purposes of the mandatory data retention
regime.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:15.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">To
give effect to this recommendation, the Committee
recommends that the Data Retention Implementation
Working Group develop an appropriate standard of
encryption to be incorporated into regulations</span></b><span style="font-size:15.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">, and
that the Communications Access Co-ordinator be
required to consider a provider’s compliance with this
standard as part of the Data Retention Implementation
Plan process.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:15.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Further,
the Communications Access Co-ordinator should be given
the
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:15.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">power
to authorise other robust security measures in limited
circumstances in which technical difficulties prevent
encryption from being implemented in existing systems
used by service providers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:15.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 27 February 2015 at 16:46, Paul
Julian <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:paul@oxygennetworks.com.au" target="_blank">paul@oxygennetworks.com.au</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">It
has to be encrypted as part of the legislation
Kris</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> AusNOG [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kristoffer Sheather @
CloudCentral<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 27 February 2015 4:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Phillip Grasso<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Welcome to Metadata
Retention<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Don't
bother encrypting it, they probably either
have the keys (or compel you to provide
them) and/or can break the encryption.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Regards,<br>
Kristoffer Sheather</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</span></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">:
"Phillip Grasso" <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:phillip.grasso@gmail.com" target="_blank">phillip.grasso@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent</b>: Friday, February 27, 2015 4:42
PM<br>
<b>To</b>: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:kris@cloudcentral.com.au" target="_blank">kris@cloudcentral.com.au</a><br>
<b>Cc</b>: "Peter Lawler" <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ausnog@bleeter.id.au" target="_blank">ausnog@bleeter.id.au</a>>,
"<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject</b>: Re: [AusNOG] Welcome to
Metadata Retention</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">did
they specify what kind of storage
conditions it needs to be stored under?
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">If not
do it cheap as possible to keep costs to
customers as long as possible; that
sounds like jbod or a raid0
array[encrypted of course] </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On Fri,
Feb 27, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Kristoffer
Sheather @ CloudCentral <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:kristoffer.sheather@cloudcentral.com.au" target="_blank">kristoffer.sheather@cloudcentral.com.au</a>>
wrote: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">That's
exactly what they should do, isn't the
government supposed to be all about
"transparency" :) ?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Regards,<br>
Kristoffer Sheather</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</span></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">:
"Phillip Grasso" <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:phillip.grasso@gmail.com" target="_blank">phillip.grasso@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent</b>: Friday, February 27, 2015
4:38 PM<br>
<b>To</b>: "Peter Lawler" <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ausnog@bleeter.id.au" target="_blank">ausnog@bleeter.id.au</a>><br>
<b>Cc</b>: "<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject</b>: Re: [AusNOG] Welcome
to Metadata Retention</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">who's
gonna pay for this? any increase
in compliance costs normally end
up costing the customer.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Wouldn't
it be funny if most of the
ISP's put on their bill
notices: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Mandatory
Government Metadata
surcharge tax^H^H^H: ~+$2 </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On Fri,
Feb 27, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Peter
Lawler <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ausnog@bleeter.id.au" target="_blank">ausnog@bleeter.id.au</a>>
wrote: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On
27/02/15 13:21, Matt Perkins
wrote:<br>
><br>
> I have one prediction the
roll out of this is going to
be the biggest<br>
> debacle since pink bats.<br>
<br>
Loathed to mention it as it's
arguably OT, but there's a
piece doing the<br>
rounds at the moment about the
cost of the eHealth record
stuff and how<br>
underutilised it has been by
the general population.<br>
<br>
As such, I think you're
missing the relevant debacle
comparator.<br>
<br>
Pete. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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