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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/03/2015 9:28 PM, John Lindsay
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:F41FB51D-7A80-4869-869F-DAF014CB5CE9@mac.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div>And by Legal Advice Paul means a real lawyer with telco
experience. I would suggest Thomson Geer or DLA Piper. <br>
</div>
</blockquote>
or Maddocks, or Baker & McKenzie, or several others. But yes -
real lawyers, with real telco & ISP experience.<br>
<br>
Keep an eye out, I expect some of them will be holding seminars at
some stage, you might wish to attend.<br>
<br>
Paul.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:F41FB51D-7A80-4869-869F-DAF014CB5CE9@mac.com"
type="cite">
<div><br>
<div>John Lindsay</div>
</div>
<div>Former regulatory and compliance guy</div>
<div><br>
On 1 Mar 2015, at 8:54 pm, Paul Brooks <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pbrooks-ausnog@layer10.com.au">pbrooks-ausnog@layer10.com.au</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Lets make this simple - but if
you think it *won't* apply to you, you should consult legal
advice to make sure.<br>
<br>
See definition of Carriage Service Provider in the Telco
Act, and definition of ISP in the Broadcasting Services Act
Schedule 5.<br>
<br>
If you provide a carriage service to the public (i.e. not
your own staff), you're a service provider.<br>
If you arrange for another CSP to provide services to the
public, you're a service provider<br>
If you resell or wholesale another CSP's services to sell
services to the public, you're a service provider.<br>
if you supply, or propose to supply, an internet carriage
service to the public, you're an <b><i>internet service
provider </i></b>. <br>
There is no registration requirement to be considered to be
a Carriage Service Provider, no license - if you provide
services, you are a CSP, if you provide access to the
Internet, you are an ISP, which makes you a service
provider, and the new legislation applies to you.<br>
<br>
There is no size threshold - it applies to the big guys, the
little guys, the single person operating from a garage with
a handful of customers.<br>
<br>
For pure hosting providers - the Broadcasting Services Act
says 'Note: If a company makes internet content
available for access on the internet, and an individual
obtains access to the content using an internet carriage
service, the company and the individual are end-users in
relation to the carriage of the content by the internet
carriage service.'<br>
....so you might not be captured, but you should consult
legal advice on that.<br>
<br>
Paul.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 27/02/2015 6:10 PM, Shaun McGuane wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:439dc5f18a4d46b2a43e7c587f93b102@IHM-CAM-E13M02.prdhosting.local"
type="cite">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi
Gents,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">A
quick question on this one.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">What
is the definition of service provider? <br>
<br>
Is this only a requirement for licensed carriers or
does it extend through the little guys <br>
in hosting at the end of the food chain?<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Shaun</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US"> AusNOG [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Wilkins<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 27 February 2015 5:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Welcome to Metadata
Retention<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">There's
2 recommendations that go to requirements for storage
of metadata, which are very much a work in progress:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:15.0pt"><span
style="font-size:15.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Recommendation
10<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:15.0pt"><span
style="font-size:15.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The
Committee recommends that the Explanatory
Memorandum to the Telecommunications (Interception
and Access) Amendment (Data Retention) Bill 2014
clarify the requirements for service providers
with regard to the retention, de-identification or
destruction of data once the two year retention
period has expired<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:15.0pt"><span
style="font-size:15.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Recommendation
37<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:15.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The
Committee recommends that the Telecommunications
(Interception and Access) Amendment (Data
Retention) Bill 2014 be amended to require
service providers to encrypt telecommunications
data that has been retained for the purposes of
the mandatory data retention regime.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:15.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">To
give effect to this recommendation, the
Committee recommends that the Data Retention
Implementation Working Group develop an
appropriate standard of encryption to be
incorporated into regulations</span></b><span
style="font-size:15.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">, and
that the Communications Access Co-ordinator be
required to consider a provider’s compliance
with this standard as part of the Data Retention
Implementation Plan process.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:15.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Further,
the Communications Access Co-ordinator should be
given the <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:15.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">power
to authorise other robust security measures in
limited circumstances in which technical
difficulties prevent encryption from being
implemented in existing systems used by service
providers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:15.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 27 February 2015 at 16:46,
Paul Julian <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paul@oxygennetworks.com.au"
target="_blank">paul@oxygennetworks.com.au</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">It
has to be encrypted as part of the
legislation Kris</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US"> AusNOG [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net"
target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kristoffer Sheather @
CloudCentral<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 27 February 2015 4:44
PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Phillip Grasso<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net"
target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Welcome to
Metadata Retention<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Don't
bother encrypting it, they probably
either have the keys (or compel you to
provide them) and/or can break the
encryption.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Regards,<br>
Kristoffer Sheather</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center" align="center"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</span></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">:
"Phillip Grasso" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:phillip.grasso@gmail.com"
target="_blank">phillip.grasso@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent</b>: Friday, February 27, 2015
4:42 PM<br>
<b>To</b>: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kris@cloudcentral.com.au" target="_blank">kris@cloudcentral.com.au</a><br>
<b>Cc</b>: "Peter Lawler" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ausnog@bleeter.id.au"
target="_blank">ausnog@bleeter.id.au</a>>,
"<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net"
target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net"
target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject</b>: Re: [AusNOG] Welcome
to Metadata Retention</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">did
they specify what kind of storage
conditions it needs to be stored
under? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">If not
do it cheap as possible to keep
costs to customers as long as
possible; that sounds like jbod or
a raid0 array[encrypted of
course] </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On Fri,
Feb 27, 2015 at 4:39 PM,
Kristoffer Sheather @ CloudCentral
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kristoffer.sheather@cloudcentral.com.au"
target="_blank">kristoffer.sheather@cloudcentral.com.au</a>>
wrote: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">That's
exactly what they should do,
isn't the government supposed to
be all about "transparency" :) ?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Regards,<br>
Kristoffer Sheather</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<hr align="center" size="2"
width="100%"> </span></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">:
"Phillip Grasso" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:phillip.grasso@gmail.com"
target="_blank">phillip.grasso@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent</b>: Friday, February
27, 2015 4:38 PM<br>
<b>To</b>: "Peter Lawler" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ausnog@bleeter.id.au"
target="_blank">ausnog@bleeter.id.au</a>><br>
<b>Cc</b>: "<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net"
target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net"
target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject</b>: Re: [AusNOG]
Welcome to Metadata Retention</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">who's
gonna pay for this? any
increase in compliance
costs normally end up
costing the customer. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Wouldn't
it be funny if most of
the ISP's put on their
bill notices: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Mandatory
Government Metadata
surcharge tax^H^H^H:
~+$2 </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
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style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On Fri,
Feb 27, 2015 at 1:57 PM,
Peter Lawler <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ausnog@bleeter.id.au" target="_blank">ausnog@bleeter.id.au</a>>
wrote: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On
27/02/15 13:21, Matt
Perkins wrote:<br>
><br>
> I have one
prediction the roll out
of this is going to be
the biggest<br>
> debacle since pink
bats.<br>
<br>
Loathed to mention it as
it's arguably OT, but
there's a piece doing
the<br>
rounds at the moment
about the cost of the
eHealth record stuff and
how<br>
underutilised it has
been by the general
population.<br>
<br>
As such, I think you're
missing the relevant
debacle comparator.<br>
<br>
Pete. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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