<div dir="ltr">One thing I don't like is that you even have to ask them what the membership fees are... they don't have it on their website.<div><br></div><div>My question is: Are they in these negotiations on behalf of the industry or just their membership?</div><div><br></div><div>If it is the industry - which it seems it is, unless what they agree is only for their members, then they should be talking to the entire industry about what they are negotiating.</div><div><br></div><div>Maybe it is time for 'The Small to Medium ISP Association' or something... represent the unrepresented.... but then again, would anyway pay for it.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><font color="#002060" style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><font color="#1F497D" face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="3"><p style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(32,73,125)"><br>...Skeeve</p><p style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(32,73,125)"><br>--</p><p style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(32,73,125)">Skeeve Stevens - <span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">The ISP Guy</span></p></font></font><font color="#002060" style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><font color="#1F497D" face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="3"><p style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(32,73,125)">Email: <a href="mailto:skeeve@theispguy.com" target="_blank">skeeve@theispguy.com</a> ; <span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Twitter: </span><a href="https://twitter.com/TheISPGuy" style="font-size:12.8000001907349px" target="_blank">@TheISPGuy</a></p></font></font><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px;color:rgb(32,73,125);font-family:Calibri">Blog: <a href="http://theispguy.com/" target="_blank">TheISPGuy.com</a> ; Facebook: </span><font color="#20497d" face="Calibri"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/theispguy" target="_blank">TheISPGuy</a></font><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><font color="#002060"><font color="#1F497D" face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="3"><p style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(32,73,125)">Linkedin: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">/in/skeeve</a> ; <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Expert360: </span><a href="https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">Profile</a></p></font></font></div><div><blockquote type="cite" style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 11:06 AM, Alex Samad - Yieldbroker <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Alex.Samad@yieldbroker.com" target="_blank">Alex.Samad@yieldbroker.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Who are the members of
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<p class="MsoNormal">Communications Alliance<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> AusNOG [mailto:<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Skeeve Stevens<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 16 February 2015 10:49 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> AusNOG Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [AusNOG] Copyright Negotiations with ISPs<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Ausnog,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Included below is an article from todays Commsday about the negotiations regarding copyright enforcement, who will be spared costs, etc.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am concerned that as an industry we don't know what the Communications Alliance is negotiating for on our behalf, and what they will and won't agree to - especially in responsibility, liability and costs.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The negotiations are closed-door and I am nervous that we're going to end up with some politically negotiated burden that will cost ISPs a significant amount of money... especially Small ISPs, the area I am most passionate about.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Is any Ausnogger involved in this process who can let us know what is going on?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">...Skeeve<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">========COMMSDAY 16 FEB 2015============<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Key roadblocks remain for copyright code as deadline looms</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">ISPs and copyright holders are locked in a series of urgent meetings, rushing to finish a draft industry code to combat
content piracy – with an effective deadline looming of 20 February, this coming Friday, to conclude negotiations.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">But while the private discussions have sent good progress on many operational aspects of the code, the two sides are
still struggling to find common ground on two key areas of dissent: who should bear the costs of the proposed scheme, and whether ISPs should themselves be obliged to prosecute sanctions against copyright infringers.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">In the dying weeks of last year, communications minister Malcolm Turnbull and Attorney-general George Brandis called
on ISPs and rights holders to collaborate on a new industry copyright code.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Such a code, they said, should provide a means to warn users found illegally downloading; inform them of the possible
consequences; and publicize alternative, affordable and legitimate means of downloading the desired material. Following a set number of warnings, it should also provide rights owners a path to identify – and prosecute civil action against – serial infringers.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Turnbull and Brandis set a deadline of 8 April for both sides to agree on the code. Working back from there, the parties
need to work in a 30-day period for public comment plus additional time to examine all submissions and make any changes to the original draft. The board of industry body Communications Alliance would also need to sign of on the release of a draft code for
comment in the first place. The upshot: ISPs have set 20 February as the latest possible date that a draft should be publicly released.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Negotiations between rights holders and the telco sector on copyright have, in recent history, ranged from chilly to
abortive – particularly around the time several years ago that a collection of Hollywood studios tried unsuccessfully to sue iiNet for copyright infringements by its users. Nevertheless, through the current series of private meetings, CommsDay understands
that good progress has been made on several basic operational aspects of the code: everything from how warning notices might look, to the workflow from infringement detection onto allegations and notifications, and how the notices themselves might be sent
out.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">However, there are two key areas, which remain divisive. The first is the perennially vexed issue of who should wear
the costs for implementing the scheme. Turnbull has said it’s “reasonable to expect that the bulk of the costs would be borne by the rights holders,” given they have the most to gain financially from a reduction in piracy. But the exact numbers on any cost
split are proving difficult to hammer out – and there are still voices in the debate for solutions along the entire spectrum of possible arrangements, even up to ISPs wearing most of the costs themselves.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The second stumbling block is perhaps more surprising: behind closed doors, there’s still dispute as to whether the code
should include provision for ISPs to level sanctions against their own users for copyright infringement, such as redirection or throttling. Turnbull and Brandis mentioned no such steps in their letter to industry, merely expecting the code to “[ensure that]
ISPs take reasonable steps (including the development of an education and warning notice scheme) to deter online copy-right infringement on their network” and “include a process for facilitated discovery to assist rights holders in taking direct copyright
infringement action against a subscriber after an agreed number of notices.”</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Indeed, ISPs have in the past expressed severe reservations around punishing their subscribers directly for alleged copyright
infringement on the say-so of rights holders. It’s no great stretch to infer that the renewed push for direct ISP sanctions has come from the rights holders’ side of the negotiating table.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">At this stage, it’s unclear whether the two sides will be able to reach agreement before the looming deadline. It’s not
uncommon, particularly under time pressure, for parties to find a compromise on a single issue that then cascades into broader agreement: a ‘key log’ that enables them to clear the whole jam.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">But their alternatives are limited. Turnbull and Brandis have said that, should there be no code by the final 8 April
deadline, the government will lay down arrangements either via an industry code prescribed by the Attorney-general under the Copyright Act, or an industry standard prescribed by the Australian Communications and Media Authority at the direction of the comms
minister. Failure to agree on a code would essentially mean taking a gamble on which side of the debate the government might come down.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Petroc Wilton</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#20497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#20497d"><br>
--<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#20497d">Skeeve Stevens - </span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#20497d">The ISP Guy</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#20497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#20497d">Email: <a href="mailto:skeeve@theispguy.com" target="_blank">skeeve@theispguy.com</a> ; </span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#20497d">Twitter: </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#20497d"><a href="https://twitter.com/TheISPGuy" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">@TheISPGuy</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#20497d">Blog: <a href="http://theispguy.com/" target="_blank">TheISPGuy.com</a> ; Facebook: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/theispguy" target="_blank">TheISPGuy</a></span><span style="font-size:9.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#20497d">Linkedin: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155cc">/in/skeeve</span></a> ; </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Expert360: </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#20497d"><a href="https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155cc">Profile</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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