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    I wouldn't worry too much, whatever ASIO doesn't have, the NSA has
    already acquired.<br>
    Backup to Utah is guaranteed, whether you like it or not.<br>
    Getting it back for recovery purposes is likely problematical.<br>
    From my perspective, the duplication of data across a zillion
    different<br>
    backup strategies and formats, aside from the Big Brother stuff,
    ensures<br>
    that data remains ( in some manner or another) forever.<br>
    Why worry? <br>
    Keep calm, and carry on.<br>
    <br>
    <img src="cid:part1.09000004.05020901@gmail.com"
style="width:232px;height:174px;margin-left:-4px;margin-right:-4px;margin-top:0px"
      data-sz="f" name="HYZwFRQaCCdwrM:" class="rg_i"
      jsaction="load:str.tbn"><br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 26/11/2014 6:15 p.m., Nick Stallman
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:547561EC.7030903@agentpoint.com" type="cite">
      <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
        http-equiv="Content-Type">
      Doesn't ASIO report to the US overlords so anything in Australia
      belongs to the US anyway? :P<br>
      <br>
      For our servers (Databases + Files) we use duplicity to do
      incremental backups straight to Amazon S3 in Sydney.<br>
      That ticks the off site box but doesn't cover off line which isn't
      a priority for us.<br>
      <br>
      We only keep daily backups for 2 months so we don't use Glacier
      but we could reasonably easily if we wanted to.<br>
      Glacier is tape storage (hence the retrieval delays/limits and
      price) so clearly AWS still thinks its a player.<br>
      <br>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 26/11/14 15:50, Jacob Gardiner
        wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote
cite="mid:CALS0sQEsStM48C9HhZM_PArPRefjQ+jaLZfL5xq57_1Vgc02wA@mail.gmail.com"
        type="cite">That doesn't matter, they're a U.S. company and
        still subject to the patriot act even when operating outside the
        U.S.  <span></span><br>
        <br>
        On Wednesday, November 26, 2014, Alex Samad - Yieldbroker <<a
          moz-do-not-send="true"
          href="mailto:Alex.Samad@yieldbroker.com">Alex.Samad@yieldbroker.com</a>>

        wrote:<br>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-AU">
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Where

                  do AWS store this data as in which governments’ laws
                  come in to play. Do AWS have tin in Australia and can
                  you make the data stay only in Australia?</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Alex</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
              <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
                1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
                <div>
                  <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
                    1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
                          lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
                        lang="EN-US"> Barry Murphy [mailto:<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','barry@vibecommunications.co.nz');"
                          target="_blank">barry@vibecommunications.co.nz</a>]
                        <br>
                        <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 26 November 2014 3:19 PM<br>
                        <b>To:</b> Alex Samad - Yieldbroker; Peter
                        Tiggerdine<br>
                        <b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ausnog@lists.ausnog.net');"
                          target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
                        <b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Offsite Storage</span></p>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Sounds

                          like a small amount of data, tried Amazon S3
                          or something similar?</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Amazon

                          allows you to ‘mount’ a virtual tape drive in
                          their cloud and you can set it to have 7 tapes
                          and rotate them daily etc.</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">See <a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/create-a-virtual-tape-library-using-the-aws-storage-gateway"
                            target="_blank">http://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/create-a-virtual-tape-library-using-the-aws-storage-gateway</a>/</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">You

                          can then have backups older than X days go
                          into glacier rather than the more expensive S3
                          if you wanted.</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                style="color:black"> </span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#7f7f7f">Kind

                                regards,</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
                              style="line-height:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Barry

                                  Murphy</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> / </span><b><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#ff9e01">Chief


                                  Operating Officer</span></b><span
                                style="color:black"></span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
                              style="line-height:12.0pt"><span
                                style="color:black"> </span></p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
                </div>
                <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
                  1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:

                      </span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Alex

                      Samad - Yieldbroker <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Alex.Samad@yieldbroker.com');"
                        target="_blank">Alex.Samad@yieldbroker.com</a>><br>
                      <b>Date: </b>Wednesday, 26 November 2014 5:10 pm<br>
                      <b>To: </b>Peter Tiggerdine <<a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ptiggerdine@gmail.com');"
                        target="_blank">ptiggerdine@gmail.com</a>><br>
                      <b>Cc: </b>"<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ausnog@lists.ausnog.net');"
                        target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>"
                      <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ausnog@lists.ausnog.net');"
                        target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>><br>
                      <b>Subject: </b>Re: [AusNOG] Offsite Storage</span></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Yes</span><span
                        style="color:black"></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span
                        style="color:black"></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">My

                        current investigation is small amount of data ~
                        10-20G of core data.</span><span
                        style="color:black"></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span
                        style="color:black"></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">We

                        are happy with our current backup regime but we
                        don’t account for malicious loss of data. IE all
                        the backups are available on the network
                        somebody can delete everything online.  Offsite
                        gives you protection from that.</span><span
                        style="color:black"></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span
                        style="color:black"></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Currently

                        the old tape backup unit isn’t functioning, we
                        are looking at around ~10-15K for a server /
                        storage / drive / tapes.  I could also but some
                        external HD’s, write to them over nite and then
                        ship them off during the day. With the cost of
                        SSD and their size coming down that’s even more
                        attractive.</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span
                        style="color:black"></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">What

                        I would really like is some virtual tape library
                        available over Mega Port, where somebody else
                        looks after tape management or virtual tapes, as
                        long as I need some process which includes
                        authorisation to bring the tapes back on line. 
                        But at the right price </span><span
                        style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d">J</span><span
                        style="color:black"></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span
                        style="color:black"></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Alex</span><span
                        style="color:black"></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span
                        style="color:black"></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span
                        style="color:black"></span></p>
                    <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
                      1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
                      <div>
                        <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
                          1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"
                                lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"
                              lang="EN-US"> Peter Tiggerdine [<a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ptiggerdine@gmail.com');"
                                target="_blank">mailto:ptiggerdine@gmail.com</a>]
                              <br>
                              <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 26 November 2014
                              2:57 PM<br>
                              <b>To:</b> Alex Samad - Yieldbroker<br>
                              <b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ausnog@lists.ausnog.net');"
                                target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
                              <b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Offsite
                              Storage</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Pundits

                            have being declaring this for 20 years and
                            it still hasn't happened.</span></p>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Tape

                              has it's place as does D2D backup.</span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">The

                              answer to your question is "it depends" on
                              "</span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Organisation

                              size and maturity.</span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">DR

                              Plan</span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Backup/Recovery

                              Plan</span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Budget</span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On

                              Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 1:49 PM, Alex Samad -
                              Yieldbroker <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Alex.Samad@yieldbroker.com');"
                                target="_blank">Alex.Samad@yieldbroker.com</a>>

                              wrote:</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Hi<br>
                              <br>
                              Wondering what people are doing for
                              offsite store / backups. Looking at <a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://it.slashdot.org/story/14/11/26/0044239/is-lto-tape-on-its-way-out"
                                target="_blank">
http://it.slashdot.org/story/14/11/26/0044239/is-lto-tape-on-its-way-out</a>
                              LTO tapes sales are down.  People are
                              backing up to disk.<br>
                              <br>
                              But what are people doing for offsite. 
                              Removable HDs ?<br>
                              <br>
                              Alex<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                              AusNOG mailing list<br>
                              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net');"
                                target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
                              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog"
                                target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a></span></p>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
        <br>
        <br>
        -- <br>
        <div dir="ltr">Jacob Gardiner
          <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="http://twitter.com/jacobgardiner" target="_blank">@jacobgardiner</a></div>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br>
        <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
        <br>
        <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
AusNOG mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a>
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</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
        Nick Stallman<br>
        Agentpoint Pty Ltd <br>
        The Real Estate Web Developers<br>
        Melbourne | Sydney | Miami<br>
        <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
          href="mailto:nick@agentpoint.com">nick@agentpoint.com</a><br>
        <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
          href="http://www.agentpoint.com.au">www.agentpoint.com.au</a>
        | <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
          href="http://www.zooproperty.com">www.zooproperty.com</a> | <a
          moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
          href="http://www.ginga.com.au">www.ginga.com.au</a> | <a
          moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
          href="http://www.business2.com.au">www.business2.com.au</a><br>
        <br>
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