<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">With all do respect, do you really think that a community based internet society (of sorts) should be deciding at all who is allowed to undertake business within Australia, regardless of industry? That’s the job of the government and legal system. </div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br></div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">This RackCentral thing has only just kicked off and there’s already suggestions to form an independent body to decide who Shaun can and can not engage in business with under his new entity. </div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br></div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">As much as it sounds like Vocus & Summit are owed money, and It sounds like Shaun agrees that it does (to what amounts is the argument it sounds like), there is systems and legal frameworks in place that take care of these things. You, nor should anybody else on this list have anything to say about the matter that isn’t anything other than an opinion piece. </div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br></div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">I’m all for creating groups to improve the way our industry works, but please don’t go anywhere near suggesting that we should create a ’shonky operators’ list. Let the free market and our legal system work that bit out. </div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"> </div> <div id="bloop_sign_1416283615175766016" class="bloop_sign"><div style="font-family:helvetica,arial;font-size:13px">-- <br>Jacob Gardiner<br><a href="https://twitter.com/jacobgardiner">@jacobgardiner</a></div></div> <br><p style="color:#000;">On 18 November 2014 at 2:50:04 pm, Skeeve Stevens (<a href="mailto:skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com">skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com</a>) wrote:</p> <blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq"><span><div><div></div><div>
<title></title>
<div dir="ltr">We need something that people take seriously.... but
most of the industry is too busy getting the job done.. this is
reflected in the lack of involved of the community in the APNIC
community.... even when held in Australia barely anyone turns
up.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
...Skeeve</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<div><b style="font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">Skeeve Stevens
- </b><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">eintellego Networks Pty
Ltd</span></div>
<div>
<div><span style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px"><a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a> ; <a href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/" target="_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a></span>
<p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">
<font>Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383
; <a>skype://skeeve</a></font></p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">
<font><a href="http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks" target="_blank">facebook.com/eintellegonetworks</a> ; <a href="http://twitter.com/networkceoau" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a> </font></p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">
<font><a href="http://twitter.com/theispguy" target="_blank">twitter.com/theispguy</a><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"> ; blog: </span><a href="http://www.theispguy.com/" target="_blank">www.theispguy.com</a><br></font></p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">
<font><img src="http://eintellegonetworks.com/logos/ein09.png"><br></font></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><font><span style="color:rgb(127,0,127);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
The Experts Who The Experts Call</span></font></p>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(127,0,127)">
<span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">Juniper -
Cisco </span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">-
Cloud</span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px"> </span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">- Consulting</span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px"> </span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">- IPv4 Brokering</span></div>
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<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 18 November 2014 12:46, John Lindsay
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:johnslindsay@mac.com" target="_blank">johnslindsay@mac.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>I cajoled Simon, Michael and Bevan into keeping the old IIA
alive for three years but the organisations represented in this
list didn't support it so the directors had no choice but to wind
it up. </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Feel free to have another go. <br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
<div>John Lindsay</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On 18 Nov 2014, at 12:11 pm, Skeeve Stevens <<a href="mailto:skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Exactly... Someone needs to get one going.... or an
existing entity setup something to represent us.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
...Skeeve</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<div><b style="font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">Skeeve Stevens
- </b><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">eintellego Networks Pty
Ltd</span></div>
<div>
<div><span style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px"><a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a> ; <a href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/" target="_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a></span>
<p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">
<font>Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383
; <a>skype://skeeve</a></font></p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">
<font><a href="http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks" target="_blank">facebook.com/eintellegonetworks</a> ; <a href="http://twitter.com/networkceoau" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a> </font></p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">
<font><a href="http://twitter.com/theispguy" target="_blank">twitter.com/theispguy</a><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"> ; blog: </span><a href="http://www.theispguy.com/" target="_blank">www.theispguy.com</a><br></font></p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">
<font><img src="http://eintellegonetworks.com/logos/ein09.png"><br></font></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><font><span style="color:rgb(127,0,127);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
The Experts Who The Experts Call</span></font></p>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(127,0,127)">
<span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">Juniper -
Cisco </span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">-
Cloud</span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px"> </span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">- Consulting</span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px"> </span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">- IPv4 Brokering</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 18 November 2014 12:39, John Lindsay
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:johnslindsay@mac.com" target="_blank">johnslindsay@mac.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>What Internet industry association do you mean?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>This isn't one now. <br>
<br>
<div>John Lindsay</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On 18 Nov 2014, at 9:59 am, Skeeve Stevens <<a href="mailto:skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Perhaps one of our useful *cough* industry
associations could offer this as a service.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
...Skeeve</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<div><b style="font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">Skeeve Stevens
- </b><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">eintellego Networks Pty
Ltd</span></div>
<div>
<div><span style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px"><a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a> ; <a href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/" target="_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a></span>
<p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">
<font>Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383
; <a>skype://skeeve</a></font></p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">
<font><a href="http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks" target="_blank">facebook.com/eintellegonetworks</a> ; <a href="http://twitter.com/networkceoau" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a> </font></p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">
<font><a href="http://twitter.com/theispguy" target="_blank">twitter.com/theispguy</a><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"> ; blog: </span><a href="http://www.theispguy.com/" target="_blank">www.theispguy.com</a><br></font></p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">
<font><img src="http://eintellegonetworks.com/logos/ein09.png"><br></font></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><font><span style="color:rgb(127,0,127);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
The Experts Who The Experts Call</span></font></p>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(127,0,127)">
<span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">Juniper -
Cisco </span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">-
Cloud</span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px"> </span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">- Consulting</span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px"> </span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">- IPv4 Brokering</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 18 November 2014 10:19, Ross Wheeler
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ausnog@rossw.net" target="_blank">ausnog@rossw.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014, Skeeve Stevens wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
What is missing in our industry is something like <a href="http://www.tica.com.au/" target="_blank">http://www.tica.com.au/</a><br>
for ISPs. I've known a lot of dodgy providers who just move
to another<br>
supplier of services. It would be great if there was some
sort of industry<br>
reporting agency for customer - personal and
business.<br></blockquote>
<br>
It's been raised (and killed) many times in the last 19 years that
*I* know of, but there are legal/regulatory issues that have never
been adequately addressed, and AFAIK no system has ever got off the
ground.<br></blockquote>
</div>
<br></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
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