<div dir="ltr">IMHO, We should not care about users privacy as it pertains to telecoms services - THEY should.  No one should outsource their privacy to someone else.<div><br></div><div>We shouldn't be encrypting, securing or otherwise worrying about their comms, unless it is a part of the service they are paying for - and then it should be best effort based on the agreement for the service.</div><div><br></div><div>If they choose to use Gmail, Hotmail, TOR, or a secure provider they IPSEC into - it is their responsibility.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><br>...Skeeve</div><div><br></div><div><div><b style="font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">Skeeve Stevens - </b><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">eintellego Networks Pty Ltd</span></div><div><div><span style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px"><a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a> ; <a href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/" target="_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a></span><font><p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; <a>skype://skeeve</a></p><p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px"><a href="http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks" target="_blank">facebook.com/eintellegonetworks</a> ; <a href="http://twitter.com/networkceoau" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a> </p><p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px"><a href="http://twitter.com/theispguy" target="_blank">twitter.com/theispguy</a><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"> ; blog: </span><a href="http://www.theispguy.com/" target="_blank">www.theispguy.com</a><br></p><p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px"><img src="http://eintellegonetworks.com/logos/ein09.png"><br></p><p style="margin:0px"><span style="color:rgb(127,0,127);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:13px">The Experts Who The Experts Call</span></p></font></div><div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(127,0,127)"><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">Juniper - Cisco </span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">- Cloud</span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px"> </span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">- Consulting</span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px"> </span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">- IPv4 Brokering</span></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 31 October 2014 09:41, Noel Butler <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:noel.butler@ausics.net" target="_blank">noel.butler@ausics.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
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<p>pffft</p>
<p>anyone who is going to do something stupid is hardly going to use a provider supplied email, and recommending they use gmail or hotmail shows you dont care about their users privacy, you only care about your part in responsibility.</p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12px">I think there are way too many paranoid people here, its almost like, the writers of "millenium"  should read the archives of this list for a great comeback series :)</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p>On 30/10/2014 16:58, Skeeve Stevens wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px;border-left:#1010ff 2px solid;margin-left:5px">
<div dir="ltr">I'd love to know what is meant by SMTP.
<div> </div>
<div>For new providers I'm building these days my recommendation is to do NO mail.  Consumers can go to gmail/hotmail/etc...  and businesses run their own.</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>If I ran an SMTP relay for customers, I would tell customers not to use it... so there would be no record.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Business should setup a $10 per month AWS instance in the US or Japan and relay email through that.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>My opinion is that if we don't offer the service, we can't actually log it or give the information over.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>On the other hand.. if they are asking us to intercept traffic to figure this stuff out... then I'd think there would be a much bigger problem.</div>
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<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>...Skeeve</div>
<div> </div>
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<div><strong style="font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">Skeeve Stevens - </strong><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">eintellego Networks Pty Ltd</span></div>
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<div><span style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px"><a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a> ; <a href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/" target="_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a></span>
<p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; <a>skype://skeeve</a></p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px"><a href="http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks" target="_blank">facebook.com/eintellegonetworks</a> ; <a href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a> </p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px"><a href="http://twitter.com/theispguy" target="_blank">twitter.com/theispguy</a><span style="color:#000000"> ; blog: </span><a href="http://www.theispguy.com/" target="_blank">www.theispguy.com</a></p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px"><img src="cid:14147088975452bea1ea4e8594208567@ausics.net" alt=""></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span style="color:#7f007f;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:13px">The Experts Who The Experts Call</span></p>
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<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:#7f007f"><span style="color:#002060;font-size:13px">Juniper - Cisco </span><span style="color:#002060;font-size:13px">- Cloud</span><span style="color:#002060;font-size:13px"> </span><span style="color:#002060;font-size:13px">- Consulting</span><span style="color:#002060;font-size:13px"> </span><span style="color:#002060;font-size:13px">- IPv4 Brokering</span></div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On 30 October 2014 11:54, David Beveridge <span><<a href="mailto:dave@bevhost.com" target="_blank">dave@bevhost.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I don't know why you're so upset about this. 
<div>They're only asking you to keep radius and smtp logs.</div>
<div>It's not like you're being asked to keep two years worth of netflow history.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>dave</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Paul Julian <span><<a href="mailto:paul@oxygennetworks.com.au" target="_blank">paul@oxygennetworks.com.au</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">This is total bullshit, these people just have no clue, is there nothing we can do as a community to try and stop this nonsense ?<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">I can just see the $$$$ now.....<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Regards<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Paul<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> AusNOG [mailto:<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>Andrew Yager<br><strong>Sent:</strong> Thursday, 30 October 2014 11:22 AM<br><strong>To:</strong> <a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><strong>Subject:</strong> [AusNOG] Metadata retention... it's now (almost) a thing<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/latest/turnbull-to-rush-metadata-retention-legislation-through-parliament/story-e6frg90f-1227106806266?nk=72104b22405c826c296d068859fd4bea" target="_blank">http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/latest/turnbull-to-rush-metadata-retention-legislation-through-parliament/story-e6frg90f-1227106806266?nk=72104b22405c826c296d068859fd4bea</a><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew<br clear="all"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><strong>Andrew Yager, Managing Director</strong>   <em>MACS (Snr) CP BCompSc JNCIS-SP</em><br>Real World Technology Solutions Pty Ltd - IT people you can trust<br>ph: 1300 798 718 or (02) 9037 0500<br>fax: (02) 9037 0591<br><a href="http://www.rwts.com.au/" target="_blank">http://www.rwts.com.au/</a><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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