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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>1. Greater regulation is coming our way & "that's life" as they say.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>2. Beyond that, the question of who should bear the costs of establishing & operating tertiary recording/ reporting systems, pursuant to regulation being forced upon us is the more important question.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>3. Obviously most operators will suggest that the tax payer should foot the bill seeing the point is to protect the wider public.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>4. It's been quite common over the years for the Federal Government to provide exemptions to small Australian business' in various ways. Having said that, it would seem unlikely to me that an exemption be contemplated on this occasion given the policy objectives.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>5. Some operators are tiny little companies with 1-5 staff. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>5.1 The time & capital costs to those little guys to firstly figure out precisely HOW to comply, and to then purchase systems sufficient to properly comply will be onerous.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>5.2 It's not hard to imagine that in some cases it might be the different between them continuing on or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(we saw a bit of the negative answer to that occur when after Rudd NBN was announced)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>... so in my humble view, it is imperative that the Government either subsidise the costs, or supply the kit + training.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Unfortunately the last Government failed miserably as communicating with the bulk of the smaller carriers (the conspiritalists think it was probably deliberate LOL) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>... now we have a 'pro small business' Government in place ... well .. I I must say continue to live in fear!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>-P<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Skeeve Stevens<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 28 September 2014 4:17 PM<br><b>To:</b> Geordie Guy<br><b>Cc:</b> ausnog@ausnog.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] George Brandis - Be Warned<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>+100<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The biggest problem about a most of what is happening at the moment is that a lot of it is quite technical, detailed or legal in nature and John Q Public really has no idea why it is important, just like when we debate the merits of the different NBN technologies.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Without John Q Public clearly understanding and joining the voice, our numbers to make a difference are really low... and unfortunately numbers, a loud message, especially from those with political weight is the only thing that politicians hear.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>What the Ausnog community needs to do is have a better voice, or at least support those organisations that do, from ISOC-AU, AIIA, Communications Alliance, etc... perhaps helping them establish a Service Provider representative resource - or something.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I do feel that there are a lot of operators and only a couple of them seem to have a voice - or make the effort to have a voice. But it is issues like this... when things like this happen, that we need to band together, talk to our customers, get support, etc... but unless someone spearheads it and we as a community get off our ass, then we're going to be dealing with more and more things like this happen to us and it is only going to get worse.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>...Skeeve<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Skeeve Stevens - </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>eintellego Networks Pty Ltd</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a> ; <a href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/" target="_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><a href="http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks" target="_blank">facebook.com/eintellegonetworks</a> ; <a href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><a href="http://twitter.com/theispguy" target="_blank">twitter.com/theispguy</a><span style='color:black'> ; blog: </span><a href="http://www.theispguy.com/" target="_blank">www.theispguy.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><img border=0 id="_x0000_i1025" src="http://eintellegonetworks.com/logos/ein09.png"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#7F007F'>The Experts Who The Experts Call</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060'>Juniper - Cisco - Cloud - Consulting - IPv4 Brokering</span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#7F007F'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 28 September 2014 15:06, Geordie Guy <<a href="mailto:elomis@gmail.com" target="_blank">elomis@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>This is only valid if you accept that the operation of a network is entirely divorced from the regulatory frameworks that govern operating networks. I don't. Neither do many others. Neither EFA nor ISOC have more than a peripheral interest in the rights of network operators to advocate for their freedom to conduct business according to their business' interests. That's on the operators themselves, or rather it's currently a wholly unmet responsibility and therefore the role that network operators play in the operation of their networks will be defined by the attorney general, the director general of ASIO and the commissioners of the Australian Federal Police, according to their business' interests.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Mark ZZZ Smith <<a href="mailto:markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au" target="_blank">markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I think you've forgotten what the AusNOG acronym stands for or forgotten what is in the charter - it's the Australian Network *O*perator's *G*roup. It's fundamentally a technical group.<br><br>ISOC-AU (<a href="http://www.isoc-au.org.au/" target="_blank">http://www.isoc-au.org.au/</a> )and/or EFA (<a href="https://www.efa.org.au/" target="_blank">https://www.efa.org.au/</a>) are the appropriate groups for this discussion.<br><br><br>>________________________________<br>> From: Geordie Guy <<a href="mailto:elomis@gmail.com" target="_blank">elomis@gmail.com</a>><br>>To: Skeeve Stevens <<a href="mailto:skeeve%2Bausnog@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com</a>><br>>Cc: "<a href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@ausnog.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@ausnog.net</a>><br>>Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014, 18:05<br>>Subject: Re: [AusNOG] George Brandis - Be Warned<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>>On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Skeeve Stevens <<a href="mailto:skeeve%2Bausnog@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com</a>> wrote:<br>><br>><rant><br>>><br>>><br>>>George Brandis - I hope you read this and understand.<br>>><br>>><br>>>The following article is an example of what we, the tech industry WILL do if you persist on trying to control the Internet, in Australia or anywhere else.<br>>><br>>><br>><br>><br>>LOL<br>><br>><br>>Prove it.<br>><br>><br>>The state of the Australian network operator community is such that Brandis is quite sure, if he has an IQ above room temperature, that he can do literally anything he likes to the community and industry and in response he'll get someone who is community and society minded issuing a call to arms to the AusNOG list that will be met with between 1 and 3 people complaining that the email doesn't contain a traceroute pertaining to a specific, current routing issue where someone going via a peer is getting a packet or two dropped and want to know if other people using the same peering have the same problem.<br>><br>><br>>Seriously.<br>><br>><br>>If you want to issue threats to politicians who are expediting the ISP and carrier industry into a collection of Australian businesses whose primary business models are issuing copyright infringement notices, wholesale aggregating and delivering user metadata and policing what websites their customers can access in the lens of current government policy about what people should do, you might want to check that the industry gives a proverbial.<br>><br>><br>>Every attempt at engaging the AusNOG community to care about these issues falls on the deaf ears of operators that just want to get through their shift and have convinced themselves that other people will sort it out if there's a genuine problem.<br>><br>><br>>Skeeve if you ever want to work with someone to oppose this sort of stuff contact me directly. There's two of us, we can find more offlist.<br>><br>><br>><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>>_______________________________________________<br>>AusNOG mailing list<br>><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><br>><br>><br>><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>