<div dir="ltr">I've accomplished something similar to Andrew using Zeroshell and VPN Bonding (<a href="http://www.zeroshell.org/load-balancing-failover/#vpn-bonding">http://www.zeroshell.org/load-balancing-failover/#vpn-bonding</a>).<div><div>I did it for the same reasons as Ben (twitch streaming), it worked well enough, I was using two ADSL2 connections with 2 IPs on the other end and static routes to properly send the traffic down both pipes.</div><div>The setup was only in use when I was streaming so I can't attest to it's long-term reliability, but the download/upload speed was the expected combined speed with a little overhead.</div><div><br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 6:05 AM, Joseph Goldman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:joe@apcs.com.au" target="_blank">joe@apcs.com.au</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Very interesting idea - I have used Mikrotik with Cisco LNS trying MLPPP, where mostly I was lucky to re-achieve the results of a single line. It was production LNS so I didn't want to do too much changing to 'fiddle', but separate PPP with EoIP and bonding over the top is quite interesting.<br>
<br>
You say your using Mikrotik each end, are you using "balance rr" bonding type to get even throughput? Or are you still using say 802.3ad with Layer2/3 hashing (i.e. per flow balancing rather than per packet).<br>
<br>
On 14/09/14 23:46, Andrew Cox wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
/"bringing up three EOIP tunnels (one on each ADSL) to a server you<span class=""><br>
control with an additional /30 routed to it. Then bridge the three<br></span>
tunnels on both ends"/<br>
/<br>
/<span class=""><br>
This is achievable and nets the required gains in upload/download.<br>
<br>
Source: I've done it.. <a href="http://i.imgur.com/eVNPPxA.png" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/eVNPPxA.png</a> - this is a graph<br>
of 4 x ADSL2+ services (quite close to an exchange so good sync rates)<br>
bonded together back to another router about 40ms away. The data rates<br>
speak for themselves. Oh and this is using MikroTik gear at both ends.<br>
<br>
- Andrew<br>
<br>
On 13 September 2014 07:26, Damien Gardner Jnr <<a href="mailto:rendrag@rendrag.net" target="_blank">rendrag@rendrag.net</a><br></span><span class="">
<mailto:<a href="mailto:rendrag@rendrag.net" target="_blank">rendrag@rendrag.net</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
What about bringing up three EOIP tunnels (one on each ADSL) to a<br>
server you control with an additional /30 routed to it. Then bridge<br>
the three tunnels on both ends, and drop the two IP's on the /30 on<br>
each end of the bridged tunnel, and NAT your workstation out that IP?<br>
<br>
Of course that's assuming Annex M isn't available on your exchange ;)<br>
<br>
On 13 September 2014 00:57, Ben Cooper <<a href="mailto:ben@zeno.io" target="_blank">ben@zeno.io</a><br></span><span class="">
<mailto:<a href="mailto:ben@zeno.io" target="_blank">ben@zeno.io</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
But what if we really need the upload bandwidth? (ie id take the<br>
downstream hit if it means my upstream is improved greatly.)<br>
<br>
Backstory:<br>
<br>
In my spare time, I stream myself playing games either casually<br>
or competitively up to twitch. although latley None(read: 3) of<br>
my ADSL connections have had the upstream to realiably stream.<br>
<br>
I have been hunting for a way to join the 3 of them to try get<br>
the upload I need to stream again, without any luck. I run<br>
PFsense as core routing, but have some microtiks here i can toss<br>
in, if it means i can get better upload.<br>
<br>
Else im going to have to get a microwave connection installed.<br>
<br>
i am currently for the last week using 4G prepaid dongles and<br>
just dropping $100 on the tesltra plan and then spending it all<br>
on datapack right away, netting about 8-10 gb of data.<br>
<br>
If anyone has any suggestions to try, I am all ears.<br>
<br>
TLDR: I need more upload, badly.<br>
<br>
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 8:48 PM, Jarrad Mitchell<br></span>
<<a href="mailto:ausnog@outlook.com.au" target="_blank">ausnog@outlook.com.au</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ausnog@outlook.com.au" target="_blank">ausnog@outlook.com.au</a>><u></u>> wrote:<br>
<br>
/I would expect that any form of 'single ip' ADSL Bonding is<span class=""><br>
impractical for you. If you must, you are best of to use<br>
Per-Destination Load Balancing with two separate ISPs, and<br></span>
perhaps route specific services through the better link. /<br>
<br>
/<br>
/<br>
*/What follows is the technical reasoning and logical<br>
analysis that lead to the aforementioned conclusion/*<br>
*/<br>
/*<br>
/<br>
/<br>
*_Why 'Bonding / Teaming Aggregating' two ADSL etc links is<br>
usually a Very Bad Idea _*<br>
*_<br>
_*<span class=""><br>
ALL NETWORK INTERFACE (Including ADSL)<br>
'Aggregation/Bonding/Teaming' that results in increased<br>
throughput across a single path (a connection between two<br>
computers/IPs eg your home pc to <a href="http://youtube.com" target="_blank">youtube.com</a><br></span>
<<a href="http://youtube.com" target="_blank">http://youtube.com</a>>) almost always results in a link that<span class=""><br>
is at best just below TWICE the speed of the SLOWEST link.<br>
<br>
This is not always a problem. For example, if you have two<br>
100mbit fibre optic links over 1km, they are very unlikely<br>
to vary in their 'transmission' properties; that is to say,<br>
they are unlikely to vary considerably in how long it takes<br>
to ping the other end etc. With a connection like this,<br>
where BOTH of the Aggregate / Team 'members' can be<br>
described as electrically/physically 'identical /<br>
significantly similar', a good quality, reliable increase in<br>
performance can be achieved.<br>
<br>
<br></span>
*_Key Insight 1_: Multiple Link Aggregates that increase<span class=""><br>
Single Path Throughput ONLY EVER make sense when using<br></span>
IDENTICAL Aggregate Members.*<br>
*/<br>
/*<span class=""><br>
Knowing this, we next need to consider why ADSL Technology<br>
was developed. Simply put, it was designed to leverage<br>
EXISTING, VERY OLD Balanced Transmission Line to deliver<br>
'high speed' internet access. And it does a wonderful job<br>
indeed. But just what exactly is this existing<br>
infrastructure? The PTSN is/has in most cases (if not all):<br>
<br></span>
- Based on old _two pair non twisted transmission line_ that<span class=""><br>
was never designed for data.<br>
- Had previous network modifications (been connected and<br>
disconnected, redesigned etc)<br>
- Been previously upgraded (Pulse to DTMF Dialing for example)<br>
- Been previously re-purposed (ISDN)<br>
- Been expanded well beyond its original design,<br>
inconsistantly (Loading Coils, Pair Gain Systems & RIMS).<br>
<br>
<br></span>
*_Key Insight 2_: Any Two Pairs between an Exchange and the<span class=""><br>
Customer are VERY UNLIKELY to be 'identical / significantly<br></span>
similar'.*<br>
*<span class=""><br>
*<br>
Some people might wish to point out that EFM / SHDSL &<br>
Similar use exactly the above to deliver a good service.<br>
And they're right, from a delivered service (Marketing?)<br></span>
perspective. /Remember how I pointed out that a Aggregate<span class=""><br>
will run at the speed of its slowest member? EFM & SHDSL<br>
simply takes a bunch of pairs, and deliberately uses less<br>
bandwidth on all of them them than even the poorest can<br></span>
handle, then combines them. /<span class=""><br>
<br>
I have personally seen 8 PAIRS (16 wires) used to deliver<br>
10mbit / 10mbit EFM! To put this into perspective, a single<br>
near ideal pair can deliver 20mbit Simplex (one way) over<br>
1Km using only 2MHz of bandwidth. VDSL2+ over 500m, with<br>
its increased bandwidth would greatly exceed that!<br>
<br></span>
*_Key Insight 3_: YOU CAN make a bunch of DISSIMILAR<span class=""><br>
(electrically) Links look Similar (logically) if you are<br></span>
prepared to make individual BANDWIDTH SACRIFICES.*<br>
*<br>
*<br>
/<br>
/<br>
*_Conclusion_*<br>
/And there in lies the reality. At say $30 per pair, it<span class=""><br>
doesn't make sense economically to Aggregate a 18000/900<br>
Kbps pair with a 9000/850 Kbps pair. Because to do so<br></span>
reliably, you're likely to end up with 17000 / 1600 Kbps!!!!/<br>
/<span class=""><br>
/<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
--<br>
--<br>
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CEO<br>
Zeno Holdings PTY LTD<br></span>
P: <a href="tel:%2B61%207%203503%208553" value="+61735038553" target="_blank">+61 7 3503 8553</a> <tel:%2B61%207%203503%208553><br>
M: 0410411301 <tel:0410411301><br>
E: <a href="mailto:ben@zeno.io" target="_blank">ben@zeno.io</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ben@zeno.io" target="_blank">ben@zeno.io</a>><br>
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--<br>
<br>
Damien Gardner Jnr<br>
VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust<br></span>
<a href="mailto:rendrag@rendrag.net" target="_blank">rendrag@rendrag.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:rendrag@rendrag.net" target="_blank">rendrag@rendrag.net</a>> -<br>
<a href="http://www.rendrag.net/_" target="_blank">http://www.rendrag.net/_</a><br>
_--<span class=""><br>
We rode on the winds of the rising storm,<br>
We ran to the sounds of thunder.<br>
We danced among the lightning bolts,<br>
and tore the world asunder<br>
<br>
<br>
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