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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>As soon as the Regulator joins in as a player then it becomes very muddy.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Curtis Bayne<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 21 July 2014 3:36 PM<br><b>To:</b> Bevan Slattery; ausnog@lists.ausnog.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Netflix in AU, break up Go4, or TPG peering breakup?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>It is somewhat ironic that the "regulation" of domestic interconnection resulted in the formation of a 4-way cartel which is nearly single-handedly responsible for inflation of domestic transit costs.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>To those arguing for more government intervention, my only thoughts are that the aforementioned is a prime example of how glacial the regulators are in comparison to the industry. Seemingly reasonable short term decisions can have pretty major long term impacts.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>We're starting to see the infrastructure rot in the last mile (aging DSLAMs, contented backhauls still running at 1Gbps) from the lack of private infastructure investment due to the now-defunct FTTP NBN.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>This is very dangerous territory in which to tread...<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Bevan Slattery <<a href="mailto:bevan@slattery.net.au" target="_blank">bevan@slattery.net.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Yes. Yahoo, Google, Akamai, Limelight, Facebook, Microsoft will all tell you that the cost of domestic transit in Australia is high when compared to most other developed countries in the world. So when users (consumers/voters) want to watch movies on demand they find themselves restricted due to copyright/studio monopolies establishing a different set of licensing arrangements which are burdensome and costly and of course geo-restricting <b>and</b> then a peering arrangement which has not changed since the late 90's which inhibits new entrants from firstly investing in domestic infrastructure and then secondly creating exciting and disruptive services.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>It is more expensive to connect to your domestic instance of Amazon than your US instance… considerably. The same will probably happen with Azure, Google Compute. All because of domestic transit costs. I'm not blaming those in the club – all the power to them. Drink away. But this dance has been going on for 15 years and some how "OzEmail" are still in the GoF despite being a trickle in terms of traffic. The regulators have created an entrenched club and failed to look at what opportunities we have lost.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>What if a Nextgen or Vocus were included in a peering arrangement (and the terms of which are supposed to be published on the websites of the GoF as part of the determination)? We would have a really interesting player to deliver a national domestic product to the networks that would change the commercial paradigm significantly. But alas we are geo-excluded (copyright), commercially challenge (GoF) and soon to be further legally corn-holed from accessing off-shore content (Copyright Treaty).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>If you can't see much wrong with that picture then you may have spent too long sniffing the packets :)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>[b]<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Sam Silvester <<a href="mailto:sam.silvester@gmail.com" target="_blank">sam.silvester@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Date: </b>Monday, 21 July 2014 2:45 PM<br><b>To: </b>"<a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [AusNOG] Netflix in AU, break up Go4, or TPG peering breakup?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I'd say based on popularity Netflix seem to have what they need to operate just fine...again, why is this something for the Government to solve? Have Netflix said they have problems / see problems distributing content in Australia? Have other streaming providers?<br><br><a href="https://getpocketbook.com/blog/netflix-australia-2-stats-scare-local-players/" target="_blank">https://getpocketbook.com/blog/netflix-australia-2-stats-scare-local-players/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Jacob Gardiner <<a href="mailto:jacob@jacobgardiner.com" target="_blank">jacob@jacobgardiner.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>What about the potential for Australian produced content to be streamed to your nearest internet connected computer or tablet? Or better yet, exported via Netflix to a global audience?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Netflix solve a distribution issue, they’re not a studio. This being said, Netflix need the infrastructure to be present and that’s what this conversation is about. The NBN idea was meant to stimulate our industry to move beyond what it is now and enable businesses LIKE Netflix to set up and provide new services to Australia. (hence my dig at our dependance on mining)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>IF the government was to talk to a business like Netflix and ask them what a fast growing online business needs to operate they’d hopefully be more receptive than listening to a bunch of complainers (I imagine the government looks at groups like this as whingers). <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>netflix need - good connectivity, everywhere & local film and media content. - I think most people in AU want the same?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>On 21 July 2014 at 12:03:59 pm, Lincoln Dale (<a href="mailto:ltd@arista.com" target="_blank">ltd@arista.com</a>) wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Jacob Gardiner <<a href="mailto:jacob@jacobgardiner.com" target="_blank">jacob@jacobgardiner.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>On 21 July 2014 at 11:18:36 am, Mark Newton (<a href="mailto:newton@atdot.dotat.org" target="_blank">newton@atdot.dotat.org</a>) wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The Government is entirely impotent in this area. They cannot force an offshore provider to make decisions which are suboptimal to their business.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></div><p><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>This is exactly where the mindset needs to change. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>If the Government wants a business like Netflix and many others to invest into Australia’s market then there should be incentives to do so. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>umm. Just exactly what do you think the 'government' gets out of Netflix and others offering services in Australia? And what makes you think thats "investing in Australia" ?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Employees in Australia? Not likely. At least not any more than they would otherwise have.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Equipment in Australia? Possibly. But I can pretty much guarantee that not a single physical thing inside a server, disk, NIC or switch has been manufactured in Australia.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Netflix buying more of that 'stuff' may indirectly contribute to suppliers to Netflix, but likely that doesn't magically result in more tax $ to the Australian Government or magically promote 'investment' in Australia.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>You think otherwise?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><br>_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________ AusNOG mailing list <a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a> <a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>