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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">We proposed the same solution at a customer site about 18 months ago using the EoIP tunnelling capabilities of the Mikrotik platform.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Basically our proposal was to aggregate multiple DSL tails because they are in a rural area where the benchmark price for any other wireline connectivity
was > $1k/month/Mbps, so it seemed like a cheap way to get decent downstream with VLAN transparency.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Although we got it to ‘work’ I’d classify it as a failure. This is not to say it can’t be made to work, and YMMV, but it was a bit of a nightmare.
It may have had something to do with the firewalls we were using as well. I couldn’t find anyone the was using it successfully in the manner we intended.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I would say the main problem is troubleshooting – you’re mashing the OSI and it gets very confusing – any time you have an issue it needs a very
capable network engineer to look at it because it can go awry on so many levels.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Personally wouldn’t recommend it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Jacob<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Gavrilita<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 18 June 2014 1:45 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Matt Ayre<br>
<b>Cc:</b> ausnog@lists.ausnog.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Mikrotik routers and "VLAN trunking over WAN"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Liberation Mono";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Can’t disagree with you, Matt, however it’ll come at an expense of a slightly increased CPU usage. And we all know just how easily that
mips CPU can be overwhelmed. It depends how many pps, of course.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Liberation Mono";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Other “effects” out there, Ross, may be PMTU discovery, MTU/MRU/MSS issues, latency, imo will change rapidly, especially when used across
3G links.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Liberation Mono";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">If the user will throw privacy over the links, then expect the aforementioned effects amplify many folds.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Liberation Mono";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">As with which Mikrotik device will achieve this then the answer is any of them, as long as:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Liberation Mono";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Liberation Mono";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The license is correct<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Liberation Mono";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Liberation Mono";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The device is budgeted to suit the pps number.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Liberation Mono";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Cheers
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">J</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Liberation Mono";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Liberation Mono";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> Matt Ayre [<a href="mailto:matt.ayre@bigair.net.au">mailto:matt.ayre@bigair.net.au</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 18 June 2014 1:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Gavrilita<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ross Wheeler; <a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Mikrotik routers and "VLAN trunking over WAN"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Re "out of order segments", that is why pretty much all modern platforms include L3/L4 data points for flow hashing, whether routing/forwarding or bundle load balancing. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Even eeek MikroTik ;)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Matt<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 18 June 2014 11:50, John Gavrilita <<a href="mailto:jgavrilita@thesummitgroup.com.au" target="_blank">jgavrilita@thesummitgroup.com.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Ross,<br>
The first thing that crossed my mind is the inevitable situation when packets will arrive out of order because the designed solution uses bandwidth aggregation / load balancing. For TCP it's ok, but for UDP it'll be a nightmare and the users will literally
hear it.<br>
Mikrotik is a nifty platform, and as with any other device, one has to know how to cook it.<br>
Cheers :)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
John Gavrilita<br>
Network Engineer<br>
<br>
Summit IT Management | Summit Internet | Summit Creative - ‘reach your peak’<br>
Divisions of The Summit Group (Australia) Pty Ltd<br>
<br>
Phone (Australia): 1300 049 749<br>
Phone (US & Canada): <a href="tel:%28321%29%20216%203844">(321) 216 3844</a><br>
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Internet: <a href="http://www.thesummitgroup.com.au/" target="_blank">http://www.thesummitgroup.com.au/</a><br>
Address: Level 1, 39 Railway Road, Blackburn VIC 3130<br>
Postal: P.O. Box 3225, Doncaster East VIC 3109<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="d6efcd8f-0706-4635-9981-f86e2aba6fa9"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="d6efcd8f-0706-4635-9981-f86e2aba6fa9"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">John Gavrilita<br>
</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Network Engineer<b><o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="d6efcd8f-0706-4635-9981-f86e2aba6fa9"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="d6efcd8f-0706-4635-9981-f86e2aba6fa9"><a href="http://www.thesummitgroup.com.au"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Summit IT Management</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> |
</span><a href="http://www.summitinternet.com.au"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Summit Internet</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> |
</span><a href="http://www.summitcreative.com.au"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Summit Creative</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> - ‘reach your peak’<br>
Divisions of The Summit Group (Australia) Pty Ltd</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="d6efcd8f-0706-4635-9981-f86e2aba6fa9"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Phone (Australia): 1300 049 749<br>
Phone (US & Canada): (321) 216 3844<br>
E-mail: <a href="mailto:jgavrilita@thesummitgroup.com.au" title="Click to send email to John Gavrilita">jgavrilita@thesummitgroup.com.au</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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Postal: P.O. Box 3225, Doncaster East VIC 3109</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="d6efcd8f-0706-4635-9981-f86e2aba6fa9"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: AusNOG [mailto:<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] On Behalf Of Ross Wheeler<br>
Sent: Wednesday, 18 June 2014 11:04 AM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
Subject: [AusNOG] Mikrotik routers and "VLAN trunking over WAN"<br>
<br>
<br>
Looking for someone with Mikrotik experience to confirm which devices (any? all?) might achieve the desired outcome here.<br>
<br>
Basically there are a number of sites of varying sizes, but for the purposes of argument, lets say 20 sites.<br>
<br>
Most sites are proposed to have at least two diverse paths. These could be ADSL, Microwave, 3G/4G/LTE etc. The point is, different providers, different paths.<br>
<br>
Each site has it's (n) paths connected to interfaces on a Mikrotik router which can aggregate bandwidth across (n) links (and reduce latency<br>
somewhat) while providing an ability to withstand (n-1) link failures.<br>
<br>
The user further intends making extensive use of VLANs to "isolate"<br>
services (eg, phones, computers, security devices, "public" devices etc).<br>
Thus it would be entirely likely that there could be 40 switches at 20 sites, each with
<a href="http://10.10.8.0/22" target="_blank">10.10.8.0/22</a> for "phones" all on VLAN8.<br>
<br>
Not withstanding how YOU might do it, is there an intrinsic problem with the design (or Mikrotik as the each sites 'edge device') as it stands?<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance,<br>
RossW<br>
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