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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-NZ link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Actually the difference in cost of delivery of GPON vs point to point is very substantial. Also, DWDM-PON is possible now and will come down to the cost of GPON by the time most fibre rollouts are physically complete. DWDM-PON uses a separate wavelength for each ONT and so is far more efficient than dragging a physical fibre from every end user back to the cabinet/exchange. As such deploying point to point physical fibre now would be a massive waste of capital.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Colin Stubbs<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 9 April 2014 9:29 a.m.<br><b>To:</b> Skeeve Stevens<br><b>Cc:</b> ausnog@ausnog.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Discussion point: Why aren't the NBNCo tails symmetric in speed?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Have a read of this Skeeve,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://static.googleusercontent.com/media/research.google.com/en/pubs/archive/36936.pdf">http://static.googleusercontent.com/media/research.google.com/en//pubs/archive/36936.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Obviously written while they were still testing and reviewing their options, but they were leaning towards point to point delivery already.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Makes sense to me. WDM-PON standards weren't and still are not ready yet, and Google isn't the type of company to screw around trying to save a few dollars for short term gains.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>-Colin<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 9 April 2014 06:38, Skeeve Stevens <<a href="mailto:skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>Yes, but how does that matter?<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Google Fiber also uses GPON and they are delivering 1G/1G (see: <a href="http://networkmatter.com/2014/02/27/google-fibers-brewing-little-secret-exposed-its-gpon/" target="_blank">http://networkmatter.com/2014/02/27/google-fibers-brewing-little-secret-exposed-its-gpon/</a>)<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>While GPON may be asymmetrical for the end tail, the speeds it can achieve are clearly symmetrical in nature... and the speeds that can be achieved means that there is no reason at all that 100/100, 50/50, 25/25 or 12/12 can't be achieved - with no material impact to the network utilisation or cost.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Still sounds like an artificial restriction to me. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>...Skeeve<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Skeeve Stevens - </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>eintellego Networks Pty Ltd</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> ; </span><a href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>www.eintellegonetworks.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell </span><a href="tel:%2B61%20%280%29414%20753%20383" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>+61 (0)414 753 383</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> ; skype://skeeve<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><a href="http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>facebook.com/eintellegonetworks</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> ; </span><a href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>linkedin.com/in/skeeve</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><a href="http://twitter.com/theispguy" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>twitter.com/theispguy</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> ; blog: </span><a href="http://www.theispguy.com/" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>www.theispguy.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><img border=0 width=223 height=64 id="_x0000_i1026" src="http://eintellegonetworks.com/logos/ein09.png" alt="http://eintellegonetworks.com/logos/ein09.png"></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#7F007F'>The Experts Who The Experts Call</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060'>Juniper - Cisco - Cloud - Consulting - IPv4 Brokering</span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#7F007F'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 2:02 AM, Damian Guppy <<a href="mailto:the.damo@gmail.com" target="_blank">the.damo@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>NBN is built on GPON tech, which is normally asymmetrical. I believe it is ITU-T G.984 which supports 2.488Gbit/s down and 1.244Git/s up. Most home users have an asymmetrical data requirement, so it makes sense to divide up the available spectrum with a bias to downstream. Same reason ADSL is used and is asymmetrical even through there are SDSL specs out there. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>--Damian<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Skeeve Stevens <<a href="mailto:skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hey all,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I am sure this will spurn a healthy discussion... perhaps with conflicting views...<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>But I was wondering the other day 'Why aren't NBNCo tails sold as symmetric speeds?'<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Considering:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- The transit the RSP buys is symmetric (nearly always)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- The network core of the RSP is symmetric<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- The handoff to either NBNCo or an aggregator (and then NBNCo) is pretty much always symmetric<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- The PoI's core is symmetric<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- The fibre to the home is symmetric capable<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- The NTU is just ethernet - symmetric<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- Anything they plug into the NTU is symmetrical - ethernet<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Google Fibre in the US is 1G/1G in speeds... <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>So... unless I am missing something obvious (always possible)... Why are NBNCo tails not sold as symmetrical speeds?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I am not sure why there is this artificial design in these products to make them asymmetric. There doesn't seem to be any gain by doing this that I can think of.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Gone are the days of DSL like speeds and unbalanced design... even ATM was symmetrical.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Keen for peoples opinions.<br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>...Skeeve<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Skeeve Stevens - </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>eintellego Networks Pty Ltd</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> ; </span><a href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>www.eintellegonetworks.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Phone: </span><a href="tel:1300%20239%20038" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>1300 239 038</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>; Cell </span><a href="tel:%2B61%20%280%29414%20753%20383" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>+61 (0)414 753 383</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> ; skype://skeeve<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><a href="http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>facebook.com/eintellegonetworks</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> ; </span><a href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>linkedin.com/in/skeeve</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><a href="http://twitter.com/theispguy" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>twitter.com/theispguy</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> ; blog: </span><a href="http://www.theispguy.com/" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>www.theispguy.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><img border=0 width=32 height=32 id="_x0000_i1025" src="http://eintellegonetworks.com/logos/ein09.png" alt="http://eintellegonetworks.com/logos/ein09.png"></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#7F007F'>The Experts Who The Experts Call</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060'>Juniper - Cisco - Cloud - Consulting - IPv4 Brokering</span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#7F007F'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>