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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">I think Tony's suggestion of Cumulus +
      whitebox switches makes a lot more sense than building your own. 
      So does VyOS/Vyatta on bare metal x86, although I don't think it
      would reach the performance levels of an embedded device (although
      don't quote me on that - I haven't tested it).<br>
      <br>
      Paul<br>
      <br>
      On 03/10/2014 01:59 PM, Alex Samad - Yieldbroker wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:A3FB5D9FD28C50429DF7692DC31054E60681F8E0@DC1INTADCW8201.yieldbroker.com"
      type="cite">
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        charset=us-ascii">
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span>PFSense … no cli then no.</span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span>I think as a last resort I might look
            at building my own again.</span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Alex</span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
        <div>
          <div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                  lang="EN-US"> Nathan Brookfield
                  [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Nathan.Brookfield@simtronic.com.au">mailto:Nathan.Brookfield@simtronic.com.au</a>]
                  <br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> Monday, 10 March 2014 2:57 PM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> Alex Samad - Yieldbroker; Matt Perkins;
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> RE: [AusNOG] RouterBoard</span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Zebra/Quagga has been around for a
              very long time and is a very stable set of daemon’s and
              the backend to Vyatta so any possible issue you would have
              I am sure finding an answer online would be extremely
              easy.  I think I have had one bug with it in the last 10
              years and that was when 4 byte ASN’s came mainstream and
              that is long fixed.</span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span>PFSense is more a Firewall than a
              router, it does not have a CLI either from my experience. 
              I love it as an edge firewall ,t is extremely efficient
              and reliable but short of a Gateway I would not use it for
              routing at the DC.</span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
          <div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                  lang="EN-US"> Alex Samad - Yieldbroker [<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:Alex.Samad@yieldbroker.com">mailto:Alex.Samad@yieldbroker.com</a>]
                  <br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> Monday, 10 March 2014 2:54 PM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> Nathan Brookfield; Matt Perkins; <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">
                    ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> RE: [AusNOG] RouterBoard</span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Tempting, time ?</span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Had a look at zebra and a very very
              quick look at bird.</span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span>The other issue is support.</span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span>A few people have suggested
              pfsense, it looks interesting, I think I looked at this a
              while back, but can’t remember why I didn’t proceed
              further.</span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Alex</span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
          <div>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                    lang="EN-US"> AusNOG [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
                    <b>On Behalf Of </b>Nathan Brookfield<br>
                    <b>Sent:</b> Monday, 10 March 2014 2:48 PM<br>
                    <b>To:</b> Matt Perkins; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
                    <b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] RouterBoard</span></p>
              </div>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>If you’re finding you can do
                everything in Linux why not just throw Zebra or Bird
                into the mix and solve your issues that way?</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                    lang="EN-US"> AusNOG [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
                    <b>On Behalf Of </b>Matt Perkins<br>
                    <b>Sent:</b> Monday, 10 March 2014 2:43 PM<br>
                    <b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
                    <b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] RouterBoard</span></p>
              </div>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">My opinion and we have been using
                CCR's since the first one arrived in Australia is they
                are reasonable kit.   Overall I find the performance and
                price excellent. But there have been just to many
                unexplained problems for my liking. Not that we dont
                still use them on the edge we do. Im about to roll one
                out to quite a far destination over the next week. But
                the site has a backup and it is non essential.  They are
                not ready for the core and they are not ready for a
                network that needs 4 9's   Perhaps we are at 99.9 now. 
                Then again if I had to run on a tight budget and I had
                the opportunity to trade off reliability. It would be
                the number one on my list.
                <br>
                <br>
                Speed<br>
                Reliability <br>
                Price<br>
                <br>
                Pick any 3 CCR's fit in to the Speed and Price corner of
                the triangle. <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                Matt<br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                On 10/03/14 2:04 PM, Alex Samad - Yieldbroker wrote:</p>
            </div>
            <blockquote>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Hi</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Yeah I have read a bit about
                  the single core issues on the CCR, the last time I
                  looked because of this I saw 3 cpu’s floating around
                  30-60% non-maxed</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>I started this by looking at VM
                  routers, but I couldn’t get pas the 1Gb/s nic. There
                  is Brocades vyatta, but its just way to expensive
                  compared to routeros</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>My constraints are more along
                  the lines of, I have core switching already, I wanted
                  to add some core routing.</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>I am happy with the CCR on $$
                  on CLI</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>I am not so happy about the
                  current performance, be that limited to my testing via
                  iperf…  I am nearly ready to live with that, on the
                  presumption I can get 8+Gbs with multi stream tcp.</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>My current risk is support,
                  especially as I have had a hard time working through
                  this CCR performance issue.  I don’t want to roll out
                  2 of these at each DC and then run into a bug, where
                  the only solution is to throw it away.  I can
                  duplicate about all the functionality of routeros on
                  linux apart from BGP and OSPF. And I am guessing if I
                  looked really hard and spent some time I could get
                  that working as well.</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>So taking into account their
                  low $$ I can also live with minimal support if I have
                  another hardware solution to match up with it on a
                  similar $$ level.  If they can talk iBGP, OSPF and
                  VRRP, then I am just about set.  </span><span>J</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>So I thought I would dig into
                  the knowledge pool that is AUSNOG and find out what
                  other devices like RouterOS are being used..</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Alex</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                        lang="EN-US"> AusNOG [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
                        <b>On Behalf Of </b>Tom Berryman<br>
                        <b>Sent:</b> Monday, 10 March 2014 1:45 PM<br>
                        <b>To:</b> David Bomba; Damian Guppy<br>
                        <b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
                        <b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] RouterBoard</span></p>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    name="_MailEndCompose"><span>David is correct, the
                      Tilera CPU with RouterOS does struggle with single
                      threaded processes – worse than just BGP operating
                      on a single core, all routing (OSPF, RIP and
                      static) processing will happen on the same core.
                      ROS7 is likely to change this (rumours).</span></a></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span>But still, the CCR range has
                    forced a lot of people to change how they think
                    about routing (at a relatively small scale) – and
                    has certainly bought the cost down. “Routed” packets
                    per dollar, I don’t think anything in the new
                    hardware market can compete.</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Vyatta has other challenges
                    like x86 PCI architecture that will limit your total
                    throughput – however things like processing BGP are
                    drastically improved compared to ROS. Ubiquity has
                    ported the Vyatta/VyOS to MIPS processors, possibly
                    worth a look but I don’t think it has any SFP+.</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Given Alex’s application –
                    storage – a layer 3 solution is not likely to be the
                    best.
                  </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Alex, have you considered
                    something like the Brocade VDX Ethernet fabric (VDX
                    could enable 40g native interfaces)? Or at least
                    other layer 2 solutions? I noticed that you have
                    tried routing on switches (Dell) perhaps something
                    with some more power with this design would yield
                    better results for you?</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Tom</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span> </span></b></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                    lang="EN-US"> AusNOG [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
                    <b>On Behalf Of </b>David Bomba<br>
                    <b>Sent:</b> Monday, 10 March 2014 12:32 PM<br>
                    <b>To:</b> Damian Guppy<br>
                    <b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
                    <b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] RouterBoard</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">I believe he has the
                      CCR1036-8G-2S+ which has 2x10GB SFP+ ports.<br>
                      <br>
                      I think the issue he is hitting is the single
                      threaded nature of routerOS for a lot of its
                      functionality.</p>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">BGP, for instance spins on a
                    single core. Until ROS becomes multi-core
                    aware/capable a lot of its functionality will be
                    capped at the per core performance.</p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">On 10 March 2014 12:26, Damian
                      Guppy <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:the.damo@gmail.com" target="_blank">the.damo@gmail.com</a>>
                      wrote:</p>
                    <blockquote>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">CCR1036 has no 10G ports,
                            only 1G, so im not sure why you would expect
                            to get a single TCP stream past 1G (even
                            with LACP since that is not how LACP works)</p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span>--Damian</span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Mar 10,
                                  2014 at 6:58 AM, Alex Samad -
                                  Yieldbroker <<a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:Alex.Samad@yieldbroker.com"
                                    target="_blank">Alex.Samad@yieldbroker.com</a>>
                                  wrote:</p>
                                <blockquote>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal">Hi<br>
                                    <br>
                                    <br>
                                    So I have tested routerOS ... in VM
                                    and also bought the ccr1036.<br>
                                    <br>
                                    I'm not 100% happy with the ccr1036.
                                     Basically can't push 1 tcp stream
                                    past 1Gb/s I can get 8-9Gb/s with
                                    multiple streams. I can get UDP up
                                    to 9.8Gb/s<br>
                                    <br>
                                    I like routerOS interface (have to
                                    admit I like the vyatta better from
                                    what I saw).<br>
                                    <br>
                                    But now I need to find something
                                    similar to these devices around the
                                    same price and around the same
                                    performance, I would like to push it
                                    all to a VM but Brocade want my 1st
                                    and 2nd child ...<br>
                                    <br>
                                    So routerOS support is nowhere close
                                    to Cisco and rightly so for the
                                    price, so I have some hesitancy in
                                    rolling these things out, especially
                                    if they are going into the core.<br>
                                    <br>
                                    So are there any suggestions from
                                    the list ?<br>
                                    <br>
                                    Alex<br>
                                    <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                    AusNOG mailing list<br>
                                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net"
                                      target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
                                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog"
                                      target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a></p>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                        _______________________________________________<br>
                        AusNOG mailing list<br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog"
                          target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a></p>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                </div>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
              <pre>_______________________________________________</pre>
              <pre>AusNOG mailing list</pre>
              <pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a></pre>
              <pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a></pre>
            </blockquote>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
            <pre>-- </pre>
            <pre>/* Matt Perkins </pre>
            <pre>        Direct 1300 137 379     Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd. </pre>
            <pre>        Office 1300 133 299     <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:matt@spectrum.com.au">matt@spectrum.com.au</a> </pre>
            <pre>        Fax    1300 133 255     Level 6, 350 George Street Sydney 2000</pre>
            <pre>        SIP <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:1300137379@sip.spectrum.com.au">1300137379@sip.spectrum.com.au</a> </pre>
            <pre>        PGP/GNUPG Public Key can be found at  <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://pgp.mit.edu">http://pgp.mit.edu</a> </pre>
            <pre>*/</pre>
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