<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Actually tim they don't have to take money first. They can issue bonds. It's called debt. Like a home loan but think bigger.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Also we are talking about the edge of the network. You buy from your ISP which is where the differentiation is. As has been said on this forum as well if ISPs want to offer synchronous services over the NBN then that have the ability to do that.</div>
<div><br></div><div>It's not like every side street is a toll road is it?</div><div><br></div><div>Also are people saying we shouldn't support the people producing our food? Because that's exactly what your saying if you don't want to cross subsidise the network. After all the major cities aren't full of farms now are they.</div>
<div><br>Nick Gale<div><br></div><div>E: <a href="mailto:nick.gale@westernpower.com.au">nick.gale@westernpower.com.au</a></div></div><div><br>On 17/09/2013, at 6:45 PM, Tim McCullagh <<a href="mailto:technical@halenet.com.au">technical@halenet.com.au</a>> wrote:<br>
<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<div><font face="Arial">Following Roberts argument below</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Then why shouldnt the government mandate that all
Australians can only buy Australian built cars. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">No more need to Government assistance to the car
industry as they will then have the economies of scale, put aside the issue of
whether those are the cars we want to buy in the same way as the nbn is
providing an asyncronous service when I want a syncronous service.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">The whole argument comes down to a mater of choice
and does the government know best, put aside the issue of the fact that the
government does not have any money. The Government has to take it off
someone before it can give it to someone else.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div>Regards<br> <br>Tim<br> <br></div>
<blockquote style="PADDING-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">
<div style="FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4;FONT:10pt arial"><b>From:</b>
<a title="hudrob@gmail.com" href="mailto:hudrob@gmail.com">Robert Hudson</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="paul.wallace@mtgi.com.au" href="mailto:paul.wallace@mtgi.com.au">Paul Wallace</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:25
PM</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Screw the NBN, says
TPG: We'll do our own FTTB</div>
<div><br></div>
<p dir="ltr">TPG will only build it where it suits them.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Consider the fact that has been widely used (and I've never seen it
questioned) that the NBN as whole has a proposed 7% yield, whereas
commercial interests will seek a 15% yield before they will invest.</p>
<p dir="ltr">If we say 5m properties total with an average yield of 7%, but 1m
of those (the ones that will get covered by stuff like TPG are saying they
will offer) with an average yield of 15% (so just OK for commercial
investment). Those 1m properties end up being serviced by commercial
interests, leaving the govt to service the other 4m properties, which now have
an average return of only about 5% - not so attractive to the government now,
is it, or to consumers in that 80% who just had their monthly price bumped
up.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Again - the benefit of the NBN is near-ubiquitous broadband access
to all of Australia, at an equitable price for all. It becomes a service to
the nation that enables the country to keep up with other nations as the world
becomes globalised and connectivity becomes the differentiator between the
rich and poor globally.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 17/09/2013 7:04 PM, "Paul Wallace" <<a href="mailto:paul.wallace@mtgi.com.au">paul.wallace@mtgi.com.au</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid">
<div lang="EN-US" vlink="purple" link="blue">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'">Version
1…<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'">TPG
build it & if the offer is then low cost plus very fast, people will buy
it.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'">In
those circumstances the tax payers pay nothing<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'">In
the Conroy model …<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'">The
tax payers pay for 100%<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'">All
fresh competition, possibly including the TPG FTTB rollout is
banned<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'">All
copper is disconnected<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'">All
HFC is disconnected<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'">..
thus allowing Mr Conroy to triple the price, provide lousy service via ‘the
PMG-2” and you get the worlds most expensive
broadband.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<div style="BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> AusNOG
[mailto:<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Robert Hudson<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 17, 2013 6:55
PM<br><b>To:</b> Tom Lanyon<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG]
Screw the NBN, says TPG: We’ll do our own
FTTB<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p>
<p>Of course it has an impact on the NBN. The NBNs price model is, amongst
other things, dependant on scale and the number of premises connected.
Reduce that number by a few million, and the per-port price will rise
significantly, and those in less profitable areas ("the bush" as an
example), won't have their pricing subsidised by the commercially lucrative
connections (in "the city)".<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 17/09/2013 6:47 PM, "Tom Lanyon" <<a href="mailto:tom%2Bausnog@oneshoeco.com" target="_blank">tom+ausnog@oneshoeco.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 17/09/2013, at 6:09 PM, Jake Anderson <<a href="mailto:yahoo@vapourforge.com" target="_blank">yahoo@vapourforge.com</a>> wrote:<br>> On 17/09/2013, at
5:14 PM, Nick Gale <<a href="mailto:nickgale@gmail.com" target="_blank">nickgale@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>>> Are you saying
we should have the ability for NBN competitors? If so why?<br>><br>>
Because if you don't then private enterprise will build a bunch of little
fiefdoms where it will be uneconomical for anybody else to try to take
market share with diminishing returns, and as a bonus all those areas in
"the bush" that the population as a whole is rather
fond of won't get any services at all because its not "economic" to do
so.<br><br>None of which would be an issue, assuming that this is all
occurring in parallel to the NBN,
right?<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG
mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div></div></blockquote></div>
<p>
</p><hr>
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