<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">According to Turnbull, bonding will be
supported, but I'll conceed that this is not a residential
service.<br>
I think most a business premises have at least two copper pairs?<br>
<br>
Vectoring will need to become mandatory at some point to reach the
50Mbps target of the policy.<br>
<br>
- G.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 13/09/2013 9:02 AM, Paul Brooks wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:5232480C.6000102@layer10.com.au" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13/09/2013 7:08 AM, Guy Ellis
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:52322D56.3050009@traverse.com.au"
type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Paul,<br>
<br>
In response to your challenge (Exercise for the reader - work
out how VDSL2 would be any different)...<br>
<br>
In contrast to the current ADSL2+ network, there are 3 big
differences with the proposed VDSL2 FTTN deployment - <br>
(i) shorter loop lengths (700-800m) <br>
(ii) vectoring (crosstalk--)<br>
(iii) bonding (speed++)<br>
<br>
While such a VDSL2 network is not as good as fibre, it's no
where near as bad as the current ADSL2+ network.<br>
Right now some poor folks are on 6km loop lengths, there's
plenty of crosstalk and getting bonding working is a
challenge.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
You can forget about pair bonding in the broader plan - I
sincerely doubt the budget or street cabinets will be big enough
to build two ports for every dwelling.<br>
<br>
My point was that - without vectoring - the VDSL2 chart would look
much the same.<br>
<br>
Sure the axis labels would change - distances to 5km become
distances to 800 metres, bandwidth tops out at 120 Mbps instead of
24 Mbps - but the shape of the chart would look much the same. A
negligable proportion getting the full 'up to' speed, roughly 30%
of people getting speeds down to 50% of the "up to" limit, and a
large hump majority of people down the low end getting about 10 -
15 Mbps - probably better than the ~4 Mbps they might get now with
ADSL2, but not really up to the new benchmark.<br>
<br>
That leaves vectoring as the major difference - which will make
speeds more predictable and push a lot more services to the right
to higher speeds, reduce the width of the fuzzy cloud in the
second diagram, but still won't deliver 50 Mbps further than about
750 metres.<br>
<br>
<br>
Anyway, back to the original topic - I was looking for ADSL2+
data - anyone?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:52322D56.3050009@traverse.com.au"
type="cite">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> <br>
Regards,<br>
- Guy.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 12/09/2013 12:17 PM, Paul Brooks wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:52312456.90609@layer10.com.au" type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
A recent Ofcom (UK) report has a very interesting chart of
ADSL2+ line speeds:<br>
<div class="moz-forward-container">
<div class="WordSection1">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Ofcom Infrastructure Report 2012
Update<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/market-data-research/other/telecoms-research/broadband-speeds/infrastructure-report-2012/">http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/market-data-research/other/telecoms-research/broadband-speeds/infrastructure-report-2012/</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/research/telecoms-research/infrastructure-report/Infrastructure-report2012.pdf">http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/research/telecoms-research/infrastructure-report/Infrastructure-report2012.pdf</a><br>
Figure 4 on page 11:<br>
<img id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:part3.08060605.08090906@traverse.com.au"
width="593" height="350" border="0"><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This chart is effectively the
result of the ADSL line-sync/attenuation curve
combined with the increasing area of circles of
increasing radius around the exchange - and
demonstrates very clearly why so many people get low
ADSL2+ line speeds.<br>
(Exercise for the reader - work out how VDSL2 would be
any different)<br>
<br>
</p>
Also scatter-plots of sync-speed with line-length, as
per Figure 8 from another UK report:<br>
<br>
<img src="cid:part4.08020602.09040703@traverse.com.au"
alt="" width="553" height="240"><br>
<p class="MsoNormal">Now every DSLAM network operator
can put together similar charts - but I'm not aware of
any stats for Australian networks, apart from the heat
maps put out by iiNet and the adsl2exchanges.com.au
site, which aren't quite what I'm looking for.<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">For all you DSLAM operators - I
would be very interested in putting together similar
charts for the Australian networks, to see how our
copper loop network varies from the UK network. If
anyone is willing to share data or statistics, I'm
very interested in pulling together similar Australian
charts - on a non-identified, aggregated, anonymised
basis if you wish.<br>
Please contact me off-list - thanks.<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul.<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
AusNOG mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Guy Ellis
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:guy@traverse.com.au">guy@traverse.com.au</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.traverse.com.au">www.traverse.com.au</a>
T: +61 3 9386 4435 M: +61 419 398 234
</pre>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
AusNOG mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Guy Ellis
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:guy@traverse.com.au">guy@traverse.com.au</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.traverse.com.au">www.traverse.com.au</a>
T: +61 3 9386 4435 M: +61 419 398 234
</pre>
</body>
</html>