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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I agree …<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It’s not logical to suggest that we should replace the copper network because it’s flawed to then suggest that it’s OK that the new network is flawed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>-P<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Chard, Alex (RET-SYD)<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 09, 2013 10:56 AM<br><b>To:</b> Peter Betyounan; Noel Butler<br><b>Cc:</b> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] GoodBye NBN<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I can’t agree with this argument. It’s nothing to do with planning for the older generation.</span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The problems mentioned below are real problems. And they <b>are not</b> problems that are insurmountable.</span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>They <b>are</b> problems that should be addressed.</span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Nobody here is saying ‘stop the NBN rollout, old people can’t cope with it’ (or at least I hope they are not).</span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>They are pointing out problems that need looking at.</span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>But your assertion below is not valid, because cars with all these fancy new features that old people don’t have the skills to use still go when you press the accelerator, and stop when you press the brake.</span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>They have no broken features… and are ‘backwards compatible’ with old people </span><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>--Alex Chard</span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> AusNOG [<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Betyounan<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 9 September 2013 10:45 AM<br><b>To:</b> Noel Butler<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] GoodBye NBN</span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU>Again planning for the older generation not the current or next, it's like saying hey lets stop building more advance cars with parking assist, GPS, reverse parking sensors, fancy alarms because the older generation don't have the technical skills for them. <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU>Regards, <b><span style='color:#073763'><br>Peter Betyounan</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU>On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Noel Butler <<a href="mailto:noel.butler@ausics.net" target="_blank">noel.butler@ausics.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU>On Mon, 2013-09-09 at 10:23 +1000, Robert Hudson wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU>On 9 September 2013 10:15, Noel Butler <<a href="mailto:noel.butler@ausics.net" target="_blank">noel.butler@ausics.net</a>> wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU> <o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-AU>So, your landlines die after an hour of power outage now? find that hard to believe... sniff sniff, yes, troll day appears to have come early this week..<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-AU> <o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU>To be fair, many people with cordless phones (and there are lots) would start having issues pretty quickly into a power outage. Sure, a corded phone may still work, but many people don't have them. <o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU> <o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU>thats there problem, you can buy cheap wired sets for 10 bucks from places like Sams warehouse<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-AU><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU>and as for portable, how many old folk (70/80+) run around living on their mobiles. SFA thats how many. <br>just because the average person and their inner circles here live on the things, dont assume the rest of the population does as well.<br>and the elderly are the MOST and highest "at risk" from this change. <o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-AU> <o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU>My 88yo grandmother has a mobile phone that she answers more regularly than she answers her landline (which, FYI, has a cordless phone connected to it). I'd suggest assumptions are bad no matter who's argument they're supporting. :) <o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-AU> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-AU>Maybe so, my dad who's approaching 80 also has one,mum does not, and does not want one either, but none of his, or mum's friends do have one. I would expect people related to technical people may, but don't go assuming they all do, if I went up to the RSL on a packet out Saturday arvo and held a vote I'd be betting maybe only 10/20 might have one.<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-AU><br>_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU>This e-mail is for the use of the intended recipient(s) only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and then delete it. 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