<div dir="ltr">Thinking long term if you already have powered nodes and upgrade everyone at a later date to FTTH would it not end up being an active rather than passive network? also if you order fibre on the FTTN network is it still going to be provisioned such that there is capacity for 70% utilisation if everyone is maxing their connection at the same time? because if I remember correctly this is what was in the NBN documents for the GPON network.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr">------------------------------------------------<br><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.7315px;border-collapse:collapse"><font face="Arial"><b>Nick Gale</b></font></span><div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.7315px;border-collapse:collapse"><font face="Arial"><b><br>T:</b> (08) 9425 5029<b><br>E:</b> <a href="mailto:nick.gale@westernpower.com.au" style="color:rgb(6,88,181)" target="_blank">nick.gale@westernpower.com.au</a></font></span></div>
<div><br></div><div><b style="font-size:small;font-family:Arial">E:</b><font face="Arial"> <a href="mailto:nickgale@gmail.com" target="_blank">nickgale@gmail.com</a></font></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.7315px;border-collapse:collapse"><font size="4" color="#008000" face="Webdings"><br>
P</font><font color="#008000" face="Arial"> Please consider the environment before you print this email.</font> </span></div></div></div></div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 9 September 2013 09:19, Jake Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:yahoo@vapourforge.com" target="_blank">yahoo@vapourforge.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

  
    
  
  <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <div>It is a logical position. <br>
      You are trading one set of flaws for another, if that trade
      results in a net gain then it is a "good thing".<br>
      <br>
      The only flaw that has been identified with the FTTH *network* in
      this discussion (not the applications such as voip running over
      said network) is operation in a blackout lasting longer than 4
      hours (or 8 hours if you can get the person to press the emergency
      button).<br>
      <br>
      This is a solvable problem, you can supply power at a location
      with any level of reliability that you desire, Put some bigass
      batteries in and a solar panel if you have to, hell put a mini
      diesel generator in as well if you are really worried. However the
      number of people who would benefit from this to my mind is small
      and shrinking.<br>
      <br>
      The copper network also has major failures, what happens when it
      rains and the lines get "crossed" to the point you can't dial out
      or understand a call you are receiving, or they just crap out
      totally, this happens to my father about once a year. Or when
      there is a flood in QLD and nothing works till it dries out again.
      <br>
      The solution to this problem is to run new copper, which I feel
      given the solvable nature of the FTTH systems issues and its
      benefits in operation is a bad trade.<br>
      <br>
      Now FTTN will take coppers problems and make them worse I feel,
      unless they have waterproof nodes now?<div><div class="h5"><br>
      <br>
      On 09/09/13 10:59, Paul Wallace wrote:<br>
    </div></div></div><div><div class="h5">
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      
      
      <div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
            agree …<u></u><u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">It’s
            not logical to suggest that we should replace the copper
            network because it’s flawed to then suggest that it’s OK
            that the new network is flawed.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">-P<u></u><u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
                AusNOG [<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] <b>On
                  Behalf Of </b>Chard, Alex (RET-SYD)<br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 09, 2013 10:56 AM<br>
                <b>To:</b> Peter Betyounan; Noel Butler<br>
                <b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] GoodBye NBN<u></u><u></u></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-AU">I can’t agree with this argument. It’s
              nothing to do with planning for the older generation.</span><span lang="EN-AU"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-AU">The problems mentioned below are real
              problems. And they <b>are not</b> problems that are
              insurmountable.</span><span lang="EN-AU"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-AU">They <b>are</b> problems that should be
              addressed.</span><span lang="EN-AU"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-AU"> </span><span lang="EN-AU"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-AU">Nobody here is saying ‘stop the NBN rollout,
              old people can’t cope with it’ (or at least I hope they
              are not).</span><span lang="EN-AU"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-AU">They are pointing out problems that need
              looking at.</span><span lang="EN-AU"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-AU"> </span><span lang="EN-AU"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-AU">But your assertion below is not valid,
              because cars with all these fancy new features that old
              people don’t have the skills to use still go when you
              press the accelerator, and stop when you press the brake.</span><span lang="EN-AU"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-AU">They have no broken features… and are
              ‘backwards compatible’ with old people </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-AU">J</span><span lang="EN-AU"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-AU"> </span><span lang="EN-AU"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-AU">--Alex Chard</span><span lang="EN-AU"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-AU"> </span><span lang="EN-AU"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
              AusNOG [<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
              <b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Betyounan<br>
              <b>Sent:</b> Monday, 9 September 2013 10:45 AM<br>
              <b>To:</b> Noel Butler<br>
              <b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
              <b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] GoodBye NBN</span><span lang="EN-AU"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">Again planning for
                the older generation not the current or next, it's like
                saying hey lets stop building more advance cars with
                parking assist, GPS, reverse parking sensors, fancy
                alarms because the older generation don't have the
                technical skills for them. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"><br clear="all">
                        <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">Regards, <b><span style="color:#073763"><br>
                                Peter Betyounan</span></b><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">On Mon,
                          Sep 9, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Noel Butler <<a href="mailto:noel.butler@ausics.net" target="_blank">noel.butler@ausics.net</a>>
                          wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">On
                              Mon, 2013-09-09 at 10:23 +1000, Robert
                              Hudson wrote: <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">On 9
                              September 2013 10:15, Noel Butler <<a href="mailto:noel.butler@ausics.net" target="_blank">noel.butler@ausics.net</a>>
                              wrote: <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">  <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                          </blockquote>
                          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-AU">So, your landlines die
                                  after an hour of power outage now?
                                  find that hard to believe... sniff
                                  sniff, yes, troll day appears to have
                                  come early this week..<u></u><u></u></span></p>
                            </blockquote>
                          </blockquote>
                          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-AU"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                          </blockquote>
                          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">To
                                be fair, many people with cordless
                                phones (and there are lots) would start
                                having issues pretty quickly into a
                                power outage.  Sure, a corded phone may
                                still work, but many people don't have
                                them. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                          </blockquote>
                          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                          </blockquote>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">thats
                            there problem, you can buy cheap wired sets
                            for 10 bucks from places like Sams warehouse<u></u><u></u></span></p>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-AU"><br>
                              <br>
                              <br>
                              <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">and
                                as for portable, how many old folk
                                (70/80+) run around living on their
                                mobiles. SFA thats how many. <br>
                                just because the average person and
                                their inner circles here live on the
                                things, dont assume the rest of the
                                population does as well.<br>
                                and the elderly are the MOST and highest
                                "at risk"   from this change. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                          </blockquote>
                          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-AU"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                          </blockquote>
                          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">My
                                88yo grandmother has a mobile phone that
                                she answers more regularly than she
                                answers her landline (which, FYI, has a
                                cordless phone connected to it).  I'd
                                suggest assumptions are bad no matter
                                who's argument they're supporting. :) <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                          </blockquote>
                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-AU"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-AU">Maybe so, my dad who's
                            approaching 80 also has one,mum does not,
                            and does not want one either, but none of
                            his, or mum's friends do have one. I would
                            expect people related to technical people
                            may, but don't go assuming they all do, if I
                            went up to the RSL on a packet out Saturday
                            arvo and held a vote I'd be betting maybe
                            only 10/20 might have one.<br>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-AU"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
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      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <br>
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    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </div></div></div>

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<br></blockquote></div><br></div>