Hey Paul,<div><br></div><div>I believe this really does involve personal responsibility.</div><div><br></div><div>If you look at <a href="http://carsales.com.au">carsales.com.au</a> and buy a car as I recently did, and you do a private deal... and later on it is faulty, then basically tough luck. The onus is on the buyer to make sure that everything is right to their satisfaction before buying it. If there is any doubt on your end, you should negotiate as part of the sale, a period where there is some sort of return... but if they say no, and you still buy... it is on you.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I agree with you about mis-representing, but that is a big call... You say it was someone on the list, and as I've said off-list, I don't know why anyone in good standing with the community would purposefully risk their standing buy ripping off someone else who is on the list... it just doesn't make sense.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The kit-sales list should be treated the same as eBay, gumtree, graysonline, <a href="http://carsales.com.au">carsales.com.au</a>, and hundreds more. If your purchase isn't what you expected - then ausnog is not responsible, just as all those sites or private sales.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Every time I have a customer who buys some second-hand Cisco equipment, there come an element of risk. If you buy off eBay, you deserve what you get - that is just a stupid situation waiting to happen. If you buy from a reburb company, you find one with a good reputation that provides you quality kit... but even they won't give you much more than a couple of months for most purchases... they do their due-diligence to a certain degree, but if it works when they test it, and send it to you (most will provide a printout of the test these days), and it is DoA - then... that is a problem. What happens if it was damaged in shipping and you didn't pay insurance? How is that the sellers fault?</div>
<div><br></div><div>Whenever we do have things arrive at our office when a customer has purchased something from somewhere... we test it ASAP, so we can see that it was actually working when it arrived. There have been situations (way too many in my opinion) recently where some refurb suppliers have sent dead kit - or kit that was even showing faults in their test... that is just sad... this is why when I am buying, I only deal with people I trust and who I know do good QA, and most importantly - IF something goes wrong, they will look after it.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I am sorry you didn't get what you expected in this purchase... but, and it sucks to hear it... who is really to blame here?</div><div><br></div><div>Personally, when I sell excess kit, I keep the money sitting in paypal till a week after they've received it... just in case I have to return it... but I also do good QA as well.</div>
<div><div><div><br>...Skeeve</div><div><br></div><div><div><b style="font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">Skeeve Stevens - </b><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">eintellego Networks Pty Ltd</span></div><div>
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<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 6:37 PM, Paul Wallace <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:paul.wallace@mtgi.com.au" target="_blank">paul.wallace@mtgi.com.au</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">No Skeeve, Caveat Emptor is what Fathers say to their sons.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Misrepresenting stuff when trying to sell it in Australian is both unlawful & un-Australian and your repeating that wrong advice does this list a disservice.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">We just don’t need that kind of spirit being promulgated by senior members such as yourself.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Given the upcoming ‘kit sales list’ what we need is a spirit of ‘do the right thing by your mates lest we tap you on the shoulder.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The poor old AusNOG Board are going to lose their lives in sorting out associated problems in the future where we encourage bad behaviour.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Skeeve Stevens<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 22, 2013 5:30 PM<br><b>To:</b> <<a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] the new AusNOG list for selling kit<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Paul,<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Firstly - Caveat Emptor - Let the buyer beware.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Secondly - If you have a problem with ausnog, you should approach them directly.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal">It is uncool to accuse anyone of anything unless there is context. You've come out and accused someone, but not by name, of something that no one here knows anything about.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">AusNOG is not a place that many people who are actively involved would get away with doing something dodgy.... lest their reputation would be ruined.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">If you have a legitimate issue, you should be talking to the seller, and figuring out the how and why. Do you really think it was a purposeful, malicious sale from someone shonky? or an unfortunate situation?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Just remember, AusNOG is an audience and would be subject to libel action depending on the facts. Also, in some cases, truth isn't necessarily a defence... that said... I probably wouldn't be naming names. AusNOG isn't the place for this either way and I would take it offline - and preferably sort out the situation with whomever you have the issue with. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Also, from your tone, I would guess you are pretty angry... perhaps you should relax, have a beer, enjoy the weekend and ponder over things before you take them further... mediate perhaps?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>...Skeeve<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Skeeve Stevens - </span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">eintellego Networks Pty Ltd</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a> ; <a href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/" target="_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#7f007f">The Experts Who The Experts Call</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060">Juniper - Cisco - Cloud</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#7f007f"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 5:52 PM, Paul Wallace <<a href="mailto:paul.wallace@mtgi.com.au" target="_blank">paul.wallace@mtgi.com.au</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div><div><p class="MsoNormal">AusNOG –<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Please consider how you might address rouges going forward where they attempt to leverage the goodwill of the list by selling dodgy. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">We’ve recently become a victim to a shonk from WA purporting to be a meritorious member of this list but selling faulty kit. <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">We plan to submit a formal complaint to AusNOG shortly seeking to have this member removed from the list amongst other things.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888">Paul<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888"> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888"> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888"> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal">
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