<div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;line-height:24px">Lure�<span></span></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;line-height:24px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;line-height:24px">
Mather, Kumaraswamy, Latif. (2009). Cloud Security and Privacy: An Enterprise Perspective. Sebastopol, CA: O�Reilly Media, Inc. ISBN: 978-0-596-80276-9</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;line-height:24px">
<br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;line-height:24px">Calder, A. and Watkins, S. (2008). IT Governance: A Manager�s Guide to Data Security and ISO27001/ISO27002, 4th ed. London: Kogan Page. ISBN: 978-0-7494-5271-1</div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;line-height:24px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;line-height:24px">Gregory, P. (2010). CISSP Guide to Security Essentials. Boston, MA: Course Technology. ISBN 13:�<a href="tel:978-1-435-42819-5">978-1-435-42819-5</a></div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;line-height:24px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;line-height:24px">Tipton, Harold, and Steven Hernandez. (2009). Official (ISC)2 Guide to the CISSP CBK, 2nd ed. Auerbach Publications. ISBN 13:�<a href="tel:978-1439809594">978-1439809594</a></div>
<br>On Friday, March 22, 2013, wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send AusNOG mailing list submissions to<br>
� � � � <a>ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
� � � � <a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
� � � � <a>ausnog-request@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
� � � � <a>ausnog-owner@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of AusNOG digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
� �1. Re: the new AusNOG list for selling kit (McDonald Richards)<br>
� �2. Re: the new AusNOG list for selling kit (Skeeve Stevens)<br>
� �3. Re: the new AusNOG list for selling kit (Paul Wallace)<br>
� �4. Re: the new AusNOG list for selling kit (Skeeve Stevens)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 07:39:29 +0000<br>
From: McDonald Richards <<a>McDonald.Richards@vocus.com.au</a>><br>
To: "<<a>ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>>" <<a>ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] the new AusNOG list for selling kit<br>
Message-ID: <<a>92165B76-E9D5-459F-81D2-55D0AFEAA2E3@vocus.com.au</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Personally I find posts about what should and shouldn't be in AusNOG far more annoying than the occasional sales/recruitment/whatever post.<br>
<br>
Get over it.<br>
<br>
Macca<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 19:04:36 +1100<br>
From: Skeeve Stevens <<a>skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com</a>><br>
To: Paul Wallace <<a>paul.wallace@mtgi.com.au</a>><br>
Cc: "<<a>ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>>" <<a>ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] the new AusNOG list for selling kit<br>
Message-ID:<br>
� � � � <<a>CAEUfUGPEHx0+sO1xvvzPF8_u0+PUqGkQXhFTQ+bA0iRRWTOAng@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
<br>
Hey Paul,<br>
<br>
I believe this really does involve personal responsibility.<br>
<br>
If you look at <a href="http://carsales.com.au" target="_blank">carsales.com.au</a> and buy a car as I recently did, and you do<br>
a private deal... and later on it is faulty, then basically tough luck.<br>
�The onus is on the buyer to make sure that everything is right to their<br>
satisfaction before buying it. �If there is any doubt on your end, you<br>
should negotiate as part of the sale, a period where there is some sort of<br>
return... but if they say no, and you still buy... it is on you.<br>
<br>
I agree with you about mis-representing, but that is a big call... You say<br>
it was someone on the list, and as I've said off-list, I don't know why<br>
anyone in good standing with the community would purposefully risk their<br>
standing buy ripping off someone else who is on the list... it just doesn't<br>
make sense.<br>
<br>
The kit-sales list should be treated the same as eBay, gumtree,<br>
graysonline, <a href="http://carsales.com.au" target="_blank">carsales.com.au</a>, and hundreds more. �If your purchase isn't<br>
what you expected - then ausnog is not responsible, just as all those sites<br>
or private sales.<br>
<br>
Every time I have a customer who buys some second-hand Cisco equipment,<br>
there come an element of risk. If you buy off eBay, you deserve what you<br>
get - that is just a stupid situation waiting to happen. �If you buy from a<br>
reburb company, you find one with a good reputation that provides you<br>
quality kit... but even they won't give you much more than a couple of<br>
months for most purchases... they do their due-diligence to a certain<br>
degree, but if it works when they test it, and send it to you (most will<br>
provide a printout of the test these days), and it is DoA - then... that is<br>
a problem. �What happens if it was damaged in shipping and you didn't pay<br>
insurance? How is that the sellers fault?<br>
<br>
Whenever we do have things arrive at our office when a customer has<br>
purchased something from somewhere... we test it ASAP, so we can see that<br>
it was actually working when it arrived. �There have been situations (way<br>
too many in my opinion) recently where some refurb suppliers have sent dead<br>
kit - or kit that was even showing faults in their test... that is just<br>
sad... this is why when I am buying, I only deal with people I trust and<br>
who I know do good QA, and most importantly - IF something goes wrong, they<br>
will look after it.<br>
<br>
I am sorry you didn't get what you expected in this purchase... but, and it<br>
sucks to hear it... who is really to blame here?<br>
<br>
Personally, when I sell excess kit, I keep the money sitting in paypal till<br>
a week after they've received it... just in case I have to return it... but<br>
I also do good QA as well.<br>
<br>
...Skeeve<br>
<br>
*Skeeve Stevens - *eintellego Networks Pty Ltd<br>
<a>skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a>�; <a href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a><br>
<br>
Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve<br>
<br>
<a href="http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks" target="_blank">facebook.com/eintellegonetworks</a> ; �<<a href="http://twitter.com/networkceoau" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/networkceoau</a>><br>
<a href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a><br>
<br>
<a href="http://twitter.com/networkceoau" target="_blank">twitter.com/networkceoau</a> ; blog: <a href="http://www.network-ceo.net" target="_blank">www.network-ceo.net</a><br>
<br>
<br>
The Experts Who The Experts Call<br>
Juniper - Cisco - Cloud<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 6:37 PM, Paul Wallace <<a>paul.wallace@mtgi.com.au</a>>wrote:<br>
<br>
> No Skeeve, Caveat Emptor is what Fathers say to their sons.****<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> Misrepresenting stuff when trying to sell it in Australian is both<br>
> unlawful & un-Australian and your repeating that wrong advice does this<br>
> list a disservice.****<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> We just don?t need that kind of spirit being promulgated by senior members<br>
> such as yourself.****<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> Given the upcoming ?kit sales list? what we need is a spirit of ?do the<br>
> right thing by your mates lest we tap you on the shoulder.****<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> The poor old AusNOG Board are going to lose their lives in sorting out<br>
> associated problems in the future where we encourage bad behaviour.****<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> *From:* <a>ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a> [mailto:<br>
> <a>ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] *On Behalf Of *Skeeve Stevens<br>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 22, 2013 5:30 PM<br>
> *To:* <<a>ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>><br>
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] the new AusNOG list for selling kit****<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> Paul,****<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> Firstly - Caveat Emptor - Let the buyer beware.****<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> Secondly - If you have a problem with ausnog, you should approach them<br>
> directly.****<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> It is uncool to accuse anyone of anything unless there is context. �You've<br>
> come out and accused someone, but not by name, of something that no one<br>
> here knows anything about.****<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> AusNOG is not a place that many people who are actively involved would get<br>
> away with doing something dodgy.... lest their reputation would be ruined.<br>
> ****<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> If you have a legitimate issue, you should be talking to the seller, and<br>
> figuring out the how and why. �Do you really think it was a purposeful,<br>
> malicious sale from someone shonky? or an unfortunate situation?****<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> Just remember, AusNOG is an audience and would be subject to libel action<br>
> depending on the facts. �Also, in some cases, truth isn't necessarily a<br>
> defence... that said... I probably wouldn't be naming names. AusNOG isn't<br>
> the place for this either way and I would take it offline - and preferably<br>
> sort out the situation with whomever you have the issue with. �****<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> Also, from your tone, I would guess you are pretty angry... perhaps you<br>
> should relax, have a beer, enjoy the weekend and ponder over things before<br>
> you take them further... mediate perhaps?****<br>
><br>
><br>
> ...Skeeve****<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> *Skeeve Stevens - *eintellego Networks Pty Ltd****<br>
><br>
> <a>skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a> ; <a href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a>****<br>
><br>
> Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve****<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks" target="_blank">facebook.com/eintellegonetworks</a> ; <a href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a> ****<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://twitter.com/networkceoau" target="_blank">twitter.com/networkceoau</a> ; blog: <a href="http://www.network-ceo.net" target="_blank">www.network-ceo.net</a>****<br>
><br>
> ****<br>
><br>
> The Experts Who The Experts Call****<br>
><br>
> Juniper - Cisco - Cloud****<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 5:52 PM, Paul Wallace <<a>paul.wallace@mtgi.com.au</a>><br>
> wrote:****<br>
><br>
> AusNOG ?****<br>
><br>
> �****<br>
><br>
> Please consider how you might address rouges going forward where they<br>
> attempt to leverage the goodwill of the list by selling dodgy. ****<br>
><br>
> �****<br>
><br>
> We?ve recently become a victim to a shonk from WA purporting to be a<br>
> meritorious member of this list but selling faulty kit. ****<br>
><br>
> �****<br>
><br>
> We plan to submit a formal complaint to AusNOG shortly seeking to have<br>
> this member removed from the list amongst other things.****<br>
><br>
> �****<br>
><br>
> Paul****<br>
><br>
> �****<br>
><br>
> �****<br>
><br>
> �****<br>
><br>
> �****<br>
><br>
> �****<br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> AusNOG mailing list<br>
> <a>AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog****" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog****</a><br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/attachments/20130322/f4c5cefd/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/attachments/20130322/f4c5cefd/attachment-0001.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 18:06:43 +1000<br>
From: Paul Wallace <<a>paul.wallace@mtgi.com.au</a>><br>
To: Skeeve Stevens <<a>skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com</a>><br>
Cc: "<<a>ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>>" <<a>ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] the new AusNOG list for selling kit<br>
Message-ID: <<a>08EB2632-3EC9-4E5F-A8AC-17824EC26A25@mtgi.com.au</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
No Skeeve, it's about setting out to deceive and to unreasonably profit from that deceipt<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone powered by Polyfone Telecom<br>
<br>
<br>
On 22/03/2013, at 6:05 PM, "Skeeve Stevens" <<a>skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com</a><mailto:<a>skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Hey Paul,<br>
<br>
I believe this really does involve personal responsibility.<br>
<br>
If you look at <a href="http://carsales.com.au" target="_blank">carsales.com.au</a><<a href="http://carsales.com.au" target="_blank">http://carsales.com.au</a>> and buy a car as I recently did, and you do a private deal... and later on it is faulty, then basically tough luck. �The onus is on the buyer to make sure that everything is right to their satisfaction before buying it. �If there is any doubt on your end, you should negotiate as part of the sale, a period where there is some sort of return... but if they say no, and you still buy... it is on you.<br>
<br>
I agree with you about mis-representing, but that is a big call... You say it was someone on the list, and as I've said off-list, I don't know why anyone in good standing with the community would purposefully risk their standing buy ripping off someone else who is on the list... it just doesn't make sense.<br>
<br>
The kit-sales list should be treated the same as eBay, gumtree, graysonline, <a href="http://carsales.com.au" target="_blank">carsales.com.au</a><<a href="http://carsales.com.au" target="_blank">http://carsales.com.au</a>>, and hundreds more. �If your purchase isn't what you expected - then ausnog is not responsible, just as all those sites or private sales.<br>
<br>
Every time I have a customer who buys some second-hand Cisco equipment, there come an element of risk. If you buy off eBay, you deserve what you get - that is just a stupid situation waiting to happen. �If you buy from a reburb company, you find one with a good reputation that provides you quality kit... but even they won't give you much more than a couple of months for most purchases... they do their due-diligence to a certain degree, but if it works when they test it, and send it to you (most will provide a printout of the test these days), and it is DoA - then... that is a problem. �What happens if it was damaged in shipping and you didn't pay insurance? How is that the sellers fault?<br>
<br>
Whenever we do have things arrive at our office when a customer has purchased something from somewhere... we test it ASAP, so we can see that it was actually working when it arrived. �There have been situations (way too many in my opinion) recently where some refurb suppliers have sent dead kit - or kit that was even showing faults in their test... that is just sad... this is why when I am buying, I only deal with people I trust and who I know do good QA, and most importantly - IF something goes wrong, they will look after it.<br>
<br>
I am sorry you didn't get what you expected in this purchase... but, and it sucks to hear it... who is really to blame here?<br>
<br>
Personally, when I sell excess kit, I keep the money sitting in paypal till a week after they've received it... just in case I have to return it... but I also do good QA as well.<br>
<br>
...Skeeve<br>
<br>
Skeeve Stevens - eintellego Networks Pty Ltd<br>
<a>skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a><mailto:<a>skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a>> ; <a href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a><<a href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/" target="_blank">http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/</a>><br>
<br>
Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve<br>
<br>
<a href="http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks" target="_blank">facebook.com/eintellegonetworks</a><<a href="http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks" target="_blank">http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks</a>> ; <<a href="http://twitter.com/networkceoau" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/networkceoau</a>> <a href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a><<a href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank">http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a>><br>
<br>
<a href="http://twitter.com/networkceoau" target="_blank">twitter.com/networkceoau</a><<a href="http://twitter.com/networkceoau" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/networkceoau</a>> ; blog: <a href="http://www.network-ceo.net" target="_blank">www.network-ceo.net</a><<a href="http://www.network-ceo.net/" target="_blank">http://www.network-ceo.net/</a>><br>
<br>
[<a href="http://eintellegonetworks.com/logos/ein09.png" target="_blank">http://eintellegonetworks.com/logos/ein09.png</a>]<br>
<br>
The Experts Who The Experts Call<br>
<br>
Juniper - Cisco - Cloud<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 6:37 PM, Paul Wallace <<a></a></blockquote><br><br>-- <br>IMTIAZ AHMED<br>Chief Executive Officer<br>T.E.D.S. "NxGen IT"<br>