<p>You guys should check out what India is doing re v6 readiness, see TATA site. Maybe ACCC could help us do the same thing :-)</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mar 4, 2013 1:22 AM, "Van Der Meulen, Mark" <<a href="mailto:Mark.VanDerMeulen@travelex.com.au">Mark.VanDerMeulen@travelex.com.au</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is not directed to anyone in particular.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Whilst everyone else gets on the “I’m thinking about
everyone in the rest of the world where they are so underprivileged, and I’m also
helping your grandmother get IPv6 on her iPad, blah blah” in attempts to
passive aggressively big note how great they are without sounding self centered,
I would like to add my perspective. The perspective of the white male in his
mid twenties who grew up in an affluent country and who is for the most part,
quite self centered…. (since apparently that matters when discussing IPv4
resource policy now)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’ll start off by saying that really the whole “ you think
you have it bad, you should see everyone else in the third world” argument is
simply evasive behavior. Also, whilst you’re pushing how selfless you all are
in helping others, think on this: If you want to take credit for being the
persons who have been trying to make the internet a better place through your
policies regarding IPv4 and IPv6, then you also need to take the credit when
flack is handed out about your inability to properly handle IPv4 resource management,
and how the bad decisions that you may have been part of are affecting others.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">From this point on in my email, I wish for the “IPv6 is here
and IPv4 is long gone” argument to remain irrelevant and for those of you who
are defending APNIC to try look at things a little more objectively. There are
apparently(according to this rather long email thread) ~16,384 /22’s left, and
to some people that’s a lot of IPv4 left – not only that, there is a lot of
unused/unjustified/unneeded space out there so let’s talk about that for now.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I work with a number of corporates in banking and finance,
and in addition to this a number of small ISP’s and hosting companies trying to
get by. Most of the small/medium sized companies I work with are providing IPv6
in a dual stack, and for the most part are limited to their /22 or less, which
they have received in the past 1-3 years. On the other hand working with the
larger companies, I see absolutely no intention whatsoever of moving to IPv6. They
purely run IPv4 environments and show blatant disregard for the amount of IPv4 resources
they consume through their various legal entities. Generally, this is because
of a number of reasons:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p><u></u><span>a)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><u></u>They simply don’t care. They have far more address
space than they need, and they have “better things” to do with their time than
manage a migration to IPv6.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u><span>b)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><u></u>They don’t understand IPv6, and are concerned about its
security implications.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u><span>c)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><u></u>Management would never approve a project to IPv6 as it
simply isn’t in their interest commercially.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u><span>d)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><u></u>It is a pain when dealing with compliance.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u><span>e)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><u></u>Why?? Everything works right now, so why make life
harder for ourselves? We are never going to use all of our allocations.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So on one hand I see, large corporate A with more address
space than required, abusing the system because they can’t be bothered(amongst
other reasons) and it doesn’t make commercially sense to. Then I see small
company B implementing IPv6 but is severely limited ini its growth abilities
because of the lack of IPv4 available to it – why is this? Because if they are
selling to consumers, the consumer wants a working, no fuss connection that
works with everything and with minimal fuss. If they don’t get the minimal
fuss, they can and will take their business elsewhere in a twinkling of an eye.
If they are selling to businesses, then there is a good chance that the
business customers have a very similar attitude to that of company A, in which
case they only want IPv4 services. So you get the picture, even though they
have IPv6, no one wants it because they don’t care enough about it, and you can’t
grow a business off the back of a product that no one wants.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">My point here is that companies who are abusing the system
are actually making themselves more commercially viable – they are lowering or maintaining
capital and operating expenditure and for the most part making sound commercial
decisions. What this means materially for the companies not in the same
position(quite likely because of timing) is that they are forced to adopt a
strategy which can potentially make them less commercially viable because they
are the ones which need to increase CAPEX and OPEX, without any real prospect
of those investments returning profit or increased customer retention. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Let me make this very clear, the very same policies that
have allowed the company which has obtained excessive address space through a
registries mismanagement to be more commercially viable are the very same policies
that are limiting the commercial viability of another company. I would say that
by definition, this makes the policies of the registrars anti-competitive in
nature.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is it the problem of the small/medium/large business that
the address space was previously mismanaged? Is it to something to do with
their margins or their own lack of planning? Absolutely not, they are generally
making an effort at their own expense to implement other solutions, when often
times companies who are abusing the system clearly are not attempting to
implement other solutions, and the fact that a company may or may not have the
margins to buy more space on the open market is largely irrelevant, they need
to be given an equal opportunity to grow - just like a company buying new IPv4
resources or a corporate who already owns lots of IPv4 resources is given or
has been given that opportunity.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">At the end of the day APNIC and the other registrars were
around long before many of these companies started doing business and long
before many of these companies even knew what an IP Address was and how it
affected their business model. They have been responsible for the allocation of
address space for quite some time and hence these registrars must take full
responsibility for their lack of judgment and lack of ability to properly
administer allocations – they are being paid to have the very foresight that
they have proved they never had(and I’m not talking about 20 years ago, I’m
talking about in the last 5 years). The new/middle aged companies trying grow
are simply casualties of a poorly designed and executed set of policies, IPv6 won’t
fix it for them now and they likely won’t be viable long enough for it to fix
it for them later. Higher margins/CGNAT/etc are not solutions that will provide
long term fixes, and are not solutions commercially competitive enough to find
a place in a business plan.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is my point, as an outside observer of how the APNIC
policy influences the Australian market that I work in, I have good reason to
believe that the APNIC policies are cultivating anti-competitive environments.
Due to the very nature of the beast in that those who govern it are also those
who benefit from it, I don’t believe it will change or can change.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Full Disclosure: I very recently applied for IP space
through APNIC for one of the smaller companies I work with who will very likely
run out of space within 6 months of having an allocation, so I am biased(quite
clearly, given the above email!)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Full Disclosure: I run IPv6 at home and everywhere I can, so
please don’t try discredit me because you found someone I work with who doesn’t
run IPv6 – it’s poor form and proved you have no interest in correcting bad
policies.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Full Disclosure: My grammar is pretty average, even for an
engineer. Sorry if this hurt your eyes.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Lastly, I’m young and feel empowered by voicing my opinion
on matters I have only have half the picture on. So ignore me as you wish.<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#595959"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#595959">Mark</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Jared Hirst<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 03, 2013 11:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Skeeve Stevens<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] IPv4<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I don't outsource, I'm there making a difference by direct
employment, creating jobs, giving opportunities and teaching about the networks
we run here such as v6 etc, they are not aware if v6 yet and I think that's
more important than anything to educate them right? You've been saying all day
v4 is dead.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">You did have a go directly at me, you raved on how good you
were by employing 7 staff offshore and then asked me what I was doing. I never
accused you of not doing anything for a developing world did I??<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Unfortunately I'm not even going to waste my time reply to
the rest of your email, clearly you have not read any of mine properly
otherwise you would have seen that at no point was I asking or implying that
anything was about 'me me me' ill say it again, I can afford the space if I
need to buy it, not once have I said I wanted the low rate for me or anything.
I merely stated that the low price in AU will be abused. Again get your facts
right before commenting.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jared Hirst<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Servers Australia Pty Ltd<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Phone: 1300 788 862<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Direct: (02) 4307 4205<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">E-mail: <a href="mailto:jared.hirst@serversaustralia.com.au" target="_blank">jared.hirst@serversaustralia.com.au</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On 03/03/2013, at 11:03 PM, Skeeve Stevens <<a href="mailto:skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jared,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">My point was not what you do or don't do... but your
attitude is screaming 'me me me'. Lots of people here use outsourced staff from
developing nations (it's not called Third World anymore), so it is nothing
amazing. You pay people to do a job. Sure, they might live well, but what are
you doing to change India itself? What are you doing to change the future and
make things better?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I know a lot of the guys involved in the ISP scene in
India... I know quite reasonably what is going on over there... and so do other
people who have invested the time, like James Spenceley who has a tonne of
dealing with them, especially over the last couple of years in their fight to
setup their own IN-NIC.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am not someone who normally tells people what I do to
affect change overseas, but I was accused of not caring about the developing
world, when nothing is further from the truth.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I'm here, arguing for the developing nations... and that the
lower APNIC fees will help them... you are only talking about yourself, and how
you are affected and that one of the solutions should be that fees are raised.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am not targeting you in my comments here... It is for
anyone who can't get past their own self and needs and think about the wider
community. Those who can't see that policies affect everyone differently, and
that the 'needs of the many', often outweigh the needs of the entitled few.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">My view in relation to Internet Governance and Resources
Policy is that I don't really care what rich entitled nations like Australia
need right now. I care about developing nations where the lives of hundreds of
millions will be affected over the next few years of massive internet growth.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If you do come to APNIC meetings, or do join APNIC SIG
Policy, you better come with a perspective of what is best for the whole
community - just just your little corner. If you don't, you will experience
dozens of nations who will come back at you with force.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">To clarify. I am not saying that Jared, Bevan, or anyone
else isn't doing enough to help the world in any way. Mine is a calling...
something that blends my skills, beliefs and life aims.. It isn't for everyone.
What annoys me is when people only seem to argue for themselves without
considering those who are far far less fortunate.<br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
...Skeeve<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Skeeve
Stevens -</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">eintellego
Networks Pty Ltd</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a>;<a href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/" target="_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Phone: 1300 239 038;Cell <a href="tel:%2B61%20%280%29414%20753%20383" value="+61414753383" target="_blank">+61 (0)414 753 383</a>
;skype://skeeve<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks" target="_blank">facebook.com/eintellegonetworks</a>;<a href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="http://twitter.com/networkceoau" target="_blank">twitter.com/networkceoau</a>; blog:<a href="http://www.network-ceo.net/" target="_blank">www.network-ceo.net</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in"><img border="0" width="100" height="100" src="cid:~WRD000.jpg" alt="Image removed by sender."></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#7f007f">The Experts Who The Experts
Call</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060">Juniper - Cisco- Cloud</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#7f007f"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 10:17 PM, Jared Hirst <<a href="mailto:jared.hirst@serversaustralia.com.au" target="_blank">jared.hirst@serversaustralia.com.au</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Skeeve,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
have 30, yes 30 staff in Kochin India down in Kerala with my outsourcing
company (<a href="http://astraeanetworks.com" target="_blank">astraeanetworks.com</a>),
a THIRD world country, how dare you judge me based on not even knowing me. So I
should say WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING?? You only have 7 staff.I have 30, pick
up your game?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
like you have trained them in networking, design, hosting management and many
many other things that the western wordd has and they they can only dream of
ever learning. I have sent them equipment and also pay DOUBLE the average wage
so that their family can eat and sleep at night. I also provide a nice office as
I am sure you have seen on my facebook, I provide them with training, trips to
Aus and materials that they will NEVER get from anyone in their country. Is
that enough to satisfy you?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">India
has a truck load of IPs and I know this first hand because I have a standard
business DSL in my apartment there (yes I go there every 3 months to see them,
train them and give them help and assistance) and it came with a standard
allocation of a /28, so again mis-allocation and training is causing the
shortage. They are NOT aware of the shortage and even worse they were not aware
of IPv6 till we got there and provided training and equipment for v6.. So keep
your smart arse comments to yourself, I have said the WHOLE TIME I am not
fighting for me, I can afford space if I need it. I am fighting for the likes
of SMALL business that make up a massive portion of Australias businesses and
ISPs, those are the ones that cannot afford to just go and pay $10 -$16 / IP
and I am saying that it would be good IF they could get from APNIC.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I am
truly surprised that you have totally judged me this way and done it on a
public list, I now know why so many people dont post here, its like being
thrown into a den of tigers. You should be ashamed mate. Next time read my past
emails and get the story right before having a go at someone.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Skeeve Stevens<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 03, 2013 10:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Joshua D'Alton<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] IPv4</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Because,
like most people, he is thinking only about himself and how hard done he is
being done by.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I
far more care about developing nations... look at India. About 20 million
internet users... and hoping to get to 100 million in the next two years. Users
in China having to 're-connect' to try and get a real IP address. How the hell
are they going to make it happen? But do you know what... they WILL, and
without too much whinging.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This
is akin you you complaining you don't have enough to eat when people are
starving overseas. Really? Get over yourself and suck it up princess.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">You
have SO much more potential and ability to come up with creative and innovative
solutions to deal with these situations compared to dozens of other countries
who are struggling with sub-standard infrastructure. You can afford the
equipment and expertise they can only dream of.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I
have 7 engineers in Cambodia who work for me. They live, learn and work on
Australia/Western quality networks. I've trained them up to be the best
engineers in the country. Under my direction, they also donate time in Cambodia
helping KHNOG get started, help ISOC-KH happen, involved in Barcamps, do
training for free at schools like Passerelles Numeriques (<a href="http://www.passerellesnumeriques.org/cambodge/" target="_blank">http://www.passerellesnumeriques.org/cambodge/</a>)
who train orphans and the poor into becoming engineers (I've hired 4 of them!).
I've shipped dozens of peices of equipment to the country to donate to local
Cisco training schools and other places. I also allocate my staffs time to
helping engineers at all the ISPs in Cambodia get better at what they do -
because they very little options to learn how.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I
HELP the developing world better its infrastructure... I've put my effort and
my money where my mouth is - What the hell do you do Jared? Or for that matter,
you Bevan, whose squillions could make a HUGE difference... or is there things
you've been doing that I don't know? I don't have much, but I give a lot... how
many people here have a lot and don't even give a cent?!<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
SERIOUSLY?!<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
...Skeeve<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Skeeve Stevens -</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">eintellego Networks
Pty Ltd</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a>;<a href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/" target="_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Phone: 1300 239 038;Cell <a href="tel:%2B61%20%280%29414%20753%20383" value="+61414753383" target="_blank">+61 (0)414 753 383</a>
;skype://skeeve</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks" target="_blank">facebook.com/eintellegonetworks</a>;<a href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="http://twitter.com/networkceoau" target="_blank">twitter.com/networkceoau</a>; blog:<a href="http://www.network-ceo.net/" target="_blank">www.network-ceo.net</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in"><~WRD266.jpg></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#7f007f">The Experts Who The Experts
Call</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060">Juniper
- Cisco- Cloud</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On
Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Joshua D'Alton <<a href="mailto:joshua@railgun.com.au" target="_blank">joshua@railgun.com.au</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">It was
depleted over 5 years ago.. Why do you think you deserve space any more than
they do? I'd argue using IPs for cheap VPS etc is almost as bad as having the
IPs routed but not actually past the gateway. In both cases were the cost
$10/IP/mo neither business would be that wasteful, or they'd just be on v6.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On
Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Jared Hirst <<a href="mailto:jared.hirst@serversaustralia.com.au" target="_blank">jared.hirst@serversaustralia.com.au</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">+1 to
this!</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">As I
said before, I only came into the industry 3 years ago for IP space and now I
am suffering because others are nesting on it rather than handing it back, its
a shame that so many people have the attitude to just shun people like me that
are young, have a successful business and did not have the chance to get more
space before it was depleted to other larger providers or other providers that
didnt really need space but got it anyway. I was not trying to rant before and
people really took me out of context and smashed me for no reason, so I am glad
someone has put it in a nice long email to be clear. Thanks Bevan!</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Skeeve Stevens <<a href="mailto:skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Sunday, 3 March 2013 8:04 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Nathan Brookfield <<a href="mailto:Nathan.Brookfield@simtronic.com.au" target="_blank">Nathan.Brookfield@simtronic.com.au</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"<a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>"
<<a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [AusNOG] IPv4<br>
<b>Resent-From: </b>Bevan Slattery <<a href="mailto:bevan.slattery@nextdc.com" target="_blank">bevan.slattery@nextdc.com</a>></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">"Basically
yes. But get over it." </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Sorry Skeeve, but
that's a disgraceful attitude. Many on this list seems to think "we're so
freakin' smart we went ahead and gorged ourselves on IP addresses to the
detriment of the global community and now we are making a motza from it. Sucks
to be you for not seeing this coming".</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Well here's the
news flash everyone who thinks themselves soooo clever and smug are frankly
obtuse and their level of arrogance disgusts me. You think everyone without
IPv4 space has only themselves to blame remarks that seem to be coming from
middle aged people working for providers greater than 5 years old in a
developed economy who have been in the industry for years.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">So Skeeve and
others, I'd like to go to Iraq, or Afghanistan or Somalia and tell them that
they have no address space and sucks to be them because they were too stupid
not to see the IPv4 coming. Disregard that it's mainly because they were too
busy fighting a war, trying to find food for their family or too busy walking
kilometres to go to a mud hut with a chalk board for a "iPad" 5 years
ago.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Or how about you go
visit people in China and India who have 2,000,000,000 people trying to lift
themselves out of some of the lowest wages ever and despite being so desperate
to get connected to the internet to find their way to "freedom" and
information yes freedom and information you know that thing the internet
provides (?) and let them know they've despite having 1/3 of the worlds
population you're getting shafted because the Shinhwa news agency didn't let
them know there was an IPv4 crunch coming. Dare you to put an ad in the paper
and invite all those Chinese people to who can't connect to come down the
"the square" to talk to you about why they can't.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">While you're at it,
go into a tech incubator or anyone who is in their late teens/early 20's who
dare to do what we do and start an ISP and tell them "sucks to be you I've
effectively lied my ass off to APNIC and the other RIR's to get my hands on a
life supply of IPv4 and relied on their pathetic IPv4 management systems to
starve your hard earned start up dollars and your future while I make huge $$
because I have no conscience! ".</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">So the plan seems
to be "we're going to screw the youth/up and coming countries and
developing countries and sell our IP's to them and IPv6 isn't going to get
traction until they are bleeding out of their noses and they die on the floor.
Sanctioned extortion effectively. We're putting a price on their future and
freedom. How smart are we."</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The hubris and
arrogance here simply disgusts me and even worse, those that lied their ass off
to steal more addresses than they needed are now playing mercenary to the
future development of our youth or developing countries. What makes it worse
It's coming from people who are involved in the RIR's and the lack of compassion
and disdain being displayed is frankly beneath what the internet community is
all about.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I expected a lot
more from a lot of middle aged people who were all young once and were given a
chance. Screw your arrogance and hubris. Get your head out of your arses and
travel the world and see what the power and freedom the internet and IPv4
provides at least for the next 5 years and remember that you too were young
once and that the only reason your so god-damn smart is because he you managed
to fallout of a womans uterus in a lucky country.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">If you can't read
between the lines call me and I'll make it very clear how pathetic your
attitude is.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">[b]</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><br>
<br>
The information contained in this email and any attachments may be
confidential. This email and any attachments are also subject to copyright. No
part of them may be reproduced, adapted or transmitted without the written
permission of the copyright owner. If you are not the intended recipient, any
use, interference with, disclosure or copying of this information is
unauthorised and prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please
immediately advise the sender by return email and delete the message from your
system. All email communications to and from NEXTDC Limited are recorded for
the purposes of archival and storage.</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
AusNOG mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
AusNOG mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<font face="monospace">*******************************************************************************<br>
Travelex - <a href="http://www.travelex.com" target="_blank">www.travelex.com</a><br>
<br>
Travelex Outsourcing Pty Limited [Currency Select businesss] is a limited company registered in Australia with company number: 127 747 586.<br>
<br>
Information in this email including any attachment ('email') is confidential, <br>
may be privileged and is intended solely for the addressee. Unauthorised <br>
recipients are requested to preserve the confidentiality of this email, advise <br>
the sender immediately of any error in transmission, and then delete the email<br>
from the recipient's mailbox without making copies. Any disclosure, copying, <br>
distribution or action taken, or omitted to be taken, in reliance upon the <br>
contents of this email by unauthorised recipients is prohibited and may be<br>
unlawful.<br>
<br>
Please note that no contracts or commitments may be concluded on behalf of Travelex Outsourcing Pty Limited [Currency Select businesss] or its groups of companies ('Travelex') by means of email, and no statement or representation made in this email is binding on <br>
behalf of Travelex.<br>
<br>
DISCLAIMER: Whilst this message has been scanned for viruses, Travelex <br>
disclaims any responsibility or liability for viruses contained therein. It is <br>
therefore recommended that all emails should be scanned for viruses.<br>
*******************************************************************************</font></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
AusNOG mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div>