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<br>
When you punters aren't busy engaging in prodigious levels of
philanthropy do either of you play the piano? Because you can both
type pretty well with one hand on your d..k =)<br>
<br>
We've probably covered just about everything we're going to cover on
the IPv6 front... unless you guys actually want to pull out a ruler?<br>
<br>
<br>
T.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/03/13 11:25 PM, Jared Hirst wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:-4281801815493607065@unknownmsgid" type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<div>Just to clarify on your comment Skeeve, I own Astraea
Networks, I don't just outsource there. So I do get my hands
dirty and support / make a change to a developing country. Is
that enough to satisfy you?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If James is setting up IN-NIC then that would be amazing, as
would some education in ip allocations there etc. as it
certainly is needed, as said before be allocation they give out
for a DSL is unbelievable. <br>
<br>
Regards,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jared Hirst</div>
<div>Servers Australia Pty Ltd</div>
<div>Phone: 1300 788 862</div>
<div>Direct: (02) 4307 4205</div>
<div>E-mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jared.hirst@serversaustralia.com.au">jared.hirst@serversaustralia.com.au</a></div>
</div>
<div><br>
On 03/03/2013, at 11:03 PM, Skeeve Stevens <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com">skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Jared,
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>My point was not what you do or don't do... but your
attitude is screaming 'me me me'. Lots of people here use
outsourced staff from developing nations (it's not called
Third World anymore), so it is nothing amazing. You pay
people to do a job. Sure, they might live well, but what
are you doing to change India itself? What are you doing to
change the future and make things better?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I know a lot of the guys involved in the ISP scene in
India... I know quite reasonably what is going on over
there... and so do other people who have invested the time,
like James Spenceley who has a tonne of dealing with them,
especially over the last couple of years in their fight to
setup their own IN-NIC.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am not someone who normally tells people what I do to
affect change overseas, but I was accused of not caring
about the developing world, when nothing is further from the
truth.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
I'm here, arguing for the developing nations... and that the
lower APNIC fees will help them... you are only talking
about yourself, and how you are affected and that one of the
solutions should be that fees are raised.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am not targeting you in my comments here... It is for
anyone who can't get past their own self and needs and think
about the wider community. Those who can't see that
policies affect everyone differently, and that the 'needs of
the many', often outweigh the needs of the entitled few.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My view in relation to Internet Governance and Resources
Policy is that I don't really care what rich entitled
nations like Australia need right now. I care about
developing nations where the lives of hundreds of millions
will be affected over the next few years of massive internet
growth.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you do come to APNIC meetings, or do join APNIC SIG
Policy, you better come with a perspective of what is best
for the whole community - just just your little corner. If
you don't, you will experience dozens of nations who will
come back at you with force.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>To clarify. I am not saying that Jared, Bevan, or anyone
else isn't doing enough to help the world in any way. Mine
is a calling... something that blends my skills, beliefs and
life aims.. It isn't for everyone. What annoys me is when
people only seem to argue for themselves without considering
those who are far far less fortunate.<br clear="all">
<div>
<div><br>
...Skeeve</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><b style="font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">Skeeve
Stevens - </b><span
style="font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">eintellego
Networks Pty Ltd</span></div>
<div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com"
target="_blank">skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a> ; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/"
target="_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a></span><font>
<p
style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">
Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; <a
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style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px"><a
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target="_blank">facebook.com/eintellegonetworks</a> ; <a
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href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve"
target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a> </p>
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<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 10:17 PM,
Jared Hirst <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jared.hirst@serversaustralia.com.au"
target="_blank">jared.hirst@serversaustralia.com.au</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Skeeve,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
have 30, yes 30 staff in Kochin India down in
Kerala with my outsourcing company (<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://astraeanetworks.com"
target="_blank">astraeanetworks.com</a>), a
THIRD world country, how dare you judge me based
on not even knowing me. So I should say WHAT THE
HELL ARE YOU DOING?? You only have 7 staff….I
have 30, pick up your game?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
like you have trained them in networking,
design, hosting management and many many other
things that the western wordd has and they they
can only dream of ever learning. I have sent
them equipment and also pay DOUBLE the average
wage so that their family can eat and sleep at
night. I also provide a nice office as I am sure
you have seen on my facebook, I provide them
with training, trips to Aus and materials that
they will NEVER get from anyone in their
country. Is that enough to satisfy you?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">India
has a truck load of IP’s and I know this first
hand because I have a standard business DSL in
my apartment there (yes I go there every 3
months to see them, train them and give them
help and assistance) and it came with a standard
allocation of a /28, so again mis-allocation and
training is causing the shortage. They are NOT
aware of the shortage and even worse they were
not aware of IPv6 till we got there and provided
training and equipment for v6.. So keep your
smart arse comments to yourself, I have said the
WHOLE TIME I am not fighting for me, I can
afford space if I need it. I am fighting for the
likes of SMALL business that make up a massive
portion of Australia’s businesses and ISP’s,
those are the ones that cannot afford to just go
and pay $10 -$16 / IP and I am saying that it
would be good IF they could get from APNIC.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
am truly surprised that you have totally judged
me this way and done it on a public list, I now
know why so many people don’t post here, it’s
like being thrown into a den of tigers. You
should be ashamed mate. Next time read my past
emails and get the story right before having a
go at someone.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal">
<b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net"
target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net"
target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Skeeve Stevens<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 03, 2013 10:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Joshua D'Alton<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net"
target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] IPv4</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Because, like most people, he
is thinking only about himself and how hard done
he is being done by.</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I far more care about
developing nations... look at India. About 20
million internet users... and hoping to get to
100 million in the next two years. Users in
China having to 're-connect' to try and get a
real IP address. How the hell are they going to
make it happen? But do you know what... they
WILL, and without too much whinging.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is akin you you
complaining you don't have enough to eat when
people are starving overseas. Really? Get over
yourself and suck it up princess.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">You have SO much more
potential and ability to come up with creative
and innovative solutions to deal with these
situations compared to dozens of other countries
who are struggling with sub-standard
infrastructure. You can afford the equipment and
expertise they can only dream of.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have 7 engineers in
Cambodia who work for me. They live, learn and
work on Australia/Western quality networks. I've
trained them up to be the best engineers in the
country. Under my direction, they also donate
time in Cambodia helping KHNOG get started, help
ISOC-KH happen, involved in Barcamps, do
training for free at schools like Passerelles
Numeriques (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.passerellesnumeriques.org/cambodge/"
target="_blank">http://www.passerellesnumeriques.org/cambodge/</a>)
who train orphans and the poor into becoming
engineers (I've hired 4 of them!). I've shipped
dozens of peices of equipment to the country to
donate to local Cisco training schools and other
places. I also allocate my staffs time to
helping engineers at all the ISPs in Cambodia
get better at what they do - because they very
little options to learn how.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I HELP the developing world
better its infrastructure... I've put my effort
and my money where my mouth is - What the hell
do you do Jared? Or for that matter, you Bevan,
whose squillions could make a HUGE difference...
or is there things you've been doing that I
don't know? I don't have much, but I give a
lot... how many people here have a lot and don't
even give a cent?!</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
SERIOUSLY?!</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
...Skeeve</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Skeeve
Stevens - </span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">eintellego
Networks Pty Ltd</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com"
target="_blank">skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a> ; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/"
target="_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a></span></p>
<p
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Phone:
1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383
; <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="skype://skeeve">skype://skeeve</a></span></p>
<p
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">
<span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a
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href="http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks"
target="_blank">facebook.com/eintellegonetworks</a> ; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve"
target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a> </span></p>
<p
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
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href="http://twitter.com/networkceoau"
target="_blank">twitter.com/networkceoau</a> ;
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target="_blank">www.network-ceo.net</a></span></p>
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style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
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windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in"><~WRD266.jpg></span><span
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style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#7f007f">The
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</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060">Juniper
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:48
PM, Joshua D'Alton <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:joshua@railgun.com.au"
target="_blank">joshua@railgun.com.au</a>>
wrote:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">It was depleted
over 5 years ago.. Why do you think you
deserve space any more than they do? I'd argue
using IPs for cheap VPS etc is almost as bad
as having the IPs routed but not actually past
the gateway. In both cases were the cost
$10/IP/mo neither business would be that
wasteful, or they'd just be on v6.</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at
9:40 PM, Jared Hirst <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jared.hirst@serversaustralia.com.au"
target="_blank">jared.hirst@serversaustralia.com.au</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">+1
to this!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">As
I said before, I only came into the
industry 3 years ago for IP space
and now I am suffering because
others are ‘nesting’ on it rather
than handing it back, it’s a shame
that so many people have the
attitude to just ‘shun’ people like
me that are young, have a successful
business and did not have the chance
to get more space before it was
‘depleted’ to other larger providers
or other providers that didn’t
really need space but got it anyway.
I was not trying to rant before and
people really took me out of context
and smashed me for no reason, so I
am glad someone has put it in a nice
long email to be clear. Thanks
Bevan!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in
0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:
</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Skeeve
Stevens <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com"
target="_blank">skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Sunday, 3 March
2013 8:04 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Nathan Brookfield
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Nathan.Brookfield@simtronic.com.au"
target="_blank">Nathan.Brookfield@simtronic.com.au</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net"
target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net"
target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [AusNOG]
IPv4<br>
<b>Resent-From: </b>Bevan
Slattery <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bevan.slattery@nextdc.com"
target="_blank">bevan.slattery@nextdc.com</a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">"Basically
yes. But get over it." </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Sorry
Skeeve, but that's a disgraceful
attitude. Many on this list
seems to think "we're so
freakin' smart we went ahead and
gorged ourselves on IP addresses
to the detriment of the global
community and now we are making
a motza from it. Sucks to be
you for not seeing this coming".</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Well
here's the news flash – everyone
who thinks themselves soooo
clever and smug are frankly
obtuse and their level of
arrogance disgusts me. You
think everyone without IPv4
space has only themselves to
blame – remarks that seem to be
coming from middle aged people
working for providers greater
than 5 years old in a developed
economy who have been in the
industry for years.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">So
Skeeve and others, I'd like to
go to Iraq, or Afghanistan or
Somalia and tell them that they
have no address space and sucks
to be them because they were too
stupid not to see the IPv4
coming. Disregard that it's
mainly because they were too
busy fighting a war, trying to
find food for their family or
too busy walking kilometres to
go to a mud hut with a chalk
board for a "iPad" 5 years ago.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Or
how about you go visit people in
China and India who have
2,000,000,000 people trying to
lift themselves out of some of
the lowest wages ever and
despite being so desperate to
get connected to the internet to
find their way to "freedom" and
information – yes – freedom and
information you know that thing
the internet provides (?) and
let them know they've despite
having 1/3 of the worlds
population you're getting
shafted because the Shinhwa news
agency didn't let them know
there was an IPv4 crunch coming.
Dare you to put an ad in the
paper and invite all those
Chinese people to who can't
connect to come down the "the
square" to talk to you about why
they can't.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">While
you're at it, go into a tech
incubator or anyone who is in
their late teens/early 20's who
dare to do what we do and start
an ISP and tell them "sucks to
be you – I've effectively lied
my ass off to APNIC and the
other RIR's to get my hands on a
life supply of IPv4 and relied
on their pathetic IPv4
management systems to starve
your hard earned start up
dollars and your future while I
make huge $$ because I have no
conscience! ".</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">So
the plan seems to be "we're
going to screw the youth/up and
coming countries and developing
countries and sell our IP's to
them and IPv6 isn't going to get
traction until they are bleeding
out of their noses and they die
on the floor. Sanctioned
extortion effectively. We're
putting a price on their future
and freedom. How smart are we."</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The
hubris and arrogance here simply
disgusts me and even worse,
those that lied their ass off to
steal more addresses than they
needed are now playing mercenary
to the future development of our
youth or developing countries.
What makes it worse It's coming
from people who are involved in
the RIR's and the lack of
compassion and disdain being
displayed is frankly beneath
what the internet community is
all about.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I
expected a lot more from a lot
of middle aged people who were
all young once and were given a
chance. Screw your arrogance
and hubris. Get your head out
of your arses and travel the
world and see what the power and
freedom the internet and IPv4
provides – at least for the next
5 years and remember that you
too were young once and that the
only reason your so god-damn
smart is because he you managed
to fallout of a womans uterus in
a lucky country.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">If
you can't read between the lines
call me and I'll make it very
clear how pathetic your attitude
is.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">[b]</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><br>
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