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--></style></head><body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I was not even given a option for v6 3 years ago when I joined APNIC…. So I am unsure how v4 was gone 5 years ago, if it was then new players should have been educated and forced to take and use v6 3 years ago… instead there has been no forced take up?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Giving an IP for a VPS is the same as a $19 DSL from Telstra or Dodo…. So don’t try and stab at me for using IP’s. We also like you charge $5/ month / IP to restrict IP wastage and to cover the need to buy more when we need it.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I am not saying I deserve the space, I am saying there is more than likely a few hundred people that NEED space and cannot get it because others are holding onto it. I can afford to buy it, others can’t and they then miss out.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Anyway, going round in circles, so going I’m to bed and will ‘get over it’ as most people have mentioned, nothing can be done and we need to move on </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d">J</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> I’ll do just that.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Joshua D'Alton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 03, 2013 9:48 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] IPv4</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">
It was depleted over 5 years ago.. Why do you think you deserve space any more than they do? I'd argue using IPs for cheap VPS etc is almost as bad as having the IPs routed but not actually past the gateway. In both cases were the cost $10/IP/mo neither business would be that wasteful, or they'd just be on v6.</p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Jared Hirst <<a href="mailto:jared.hirst@serversaustralia.com.au" target="_blank">jared.hirst@serversaustralia.com.au</a>> wrote:</p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style>
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">+1 to this!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">As I said before, I only came into the industry 3 years ago for IP space and now I am suffering because others are ‘nesting’ on it rather than handing it back, it’s a shame that so many people have the attitude to just ‘shun’ people like me that are young, have a successful business and did not have the chance to get more space before it was ‘depleted’ to other larger providers or other providers that didn’t really need space but got it anyway. I was not trying to rant before and people really took me out of context and smashed me for no reason, so I am glad someone has put it in a nice long email to be clear. Thanks Bevan!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</div><div><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal" style><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Skeeve Stevens <<a href="mailto:skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Sunday, 3 March 2013 8:04 PM<br><b>To: </b>Nathan Brookfield <<a href="mailto:Nathan.Brookfield@simtronic.com.au" target="_blank">Nathan.Brookfield@simtronic.com.au</a>><br><b>Cc: </b>"<a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [AusNOG] IPv4<br><b>Resent-From: </b>Bevan Slattery <<a href="mailto:bevan.slattery@nextdc.com" target="_blank">bevan.slattery@nextdc.com</a>></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">"Basically yes. But get over it." </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Sorry Skeeve, but that's a disgraceful attitude. Many on this list seems to think "we're so freakin' smart we went ahead and gorged ourselves on IP addresses to the detriment of the global community and now we are making a motza from it. Sucks to be you for not seeing this coming".</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Well here's the news flash – everyone who thinks themselves soooo clever and smug are frankly obtuse and their level of arrogance disgusts me. You think everyone without IPv4 space has only themselves to blame – remarks that seem to be coming from middle aged people working for providers greater than 5 years old in a developed economy who have been in the industry for years.</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">So Skeeve and others, I'd like to go to Iraq, or Afghanistan or Somalia and tell them that they have no address space and sucks to be them because they were too stupid not to see the IPv4 coming. Disregard that it's mainly because they were too busy fighting a war, trying to find food for their family or too busy walking kilometres to go to a mud hut with a chalk board for a "iPad" 5 years ago.</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Or how about you go visit people in China and India who have 2,000,000,000 people trying to lift themselves out of some of the lowest wages ever and despite being so desperate to get connected to the internet to find their way to "freedom" and information – yes – freedom and information you know that thing the internet provides (?) and let them know they've despite having 1/3 of the worlds population you're getting shafted because the Shinhwa news agency didn't let them know there was an IPv4 crunch coming. Dare you to put an ad in the paper and invite all those Chinese people to who can't connect to come down the "the square" to talk to you about why they can't.</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">While you're at it, go into a tech incubator or anyone who is in their late teens/early 20's who dare to do what we do and start an ISP and tell them "sucks to be you – I've effectively lied my ass off to APNIC and the other RIR's to get my hands on a life supply of IPv4 and relied on their pathetic IPv4 management systems to starve your hard earned start up dollars and your future while I make huge $$ because I have no conscience! ".</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">So the plan seems to be "we're going to screw the youth/up and coming countries and developing countries and sell our IP's to them and IPv6 isn't going to get traction until they are bleeding out of their noses and they die on the floor. Sanctioned extortion effectively. We're putting a price on their future and freedom. How smart are we."</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The hubris and arrogance here simply disgusts me and even worse, those that lied their ass off to steal more addresses than they needed are now playing mercenary to the future development of our youth or developing countries. What makes it worse It's coming from people who are involved in the RIR's and the lack of compassion and disdain being displayed is frankly beneath what the internet community is all about.</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I expected a lot more from a lot of middle aged people who were all young once and were given a chance. Screw your arrogance and hubris. Get your head out of your arses and travel the world and see what the power and freedom the internet and IPv4 provides – at least for the next 5 years and remember that you too were young once and that the only reason your so god-damn smart is because he you managed to fallout of a womans uterus in a lucky country.</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">If you can't read between the lines call me and I'll make it very clear how pathetic your attitude is.</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">[b]</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
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