<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><i><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I don’t see Bigpond / Optus / iinet offering as a standard offering like we do.<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Internode have been running dual stack for quite an extensive period of time. They are a consumer offering.</span></b><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net [mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jared Hirst<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 3 March 2013 1:39 PM<br><b>To:</b> Joshua D'Alton; AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] IPv4<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Joshua,</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We FULLY support v6… where did you get that we don’t? Sign up right now for a Virtual Server and you will AUTO be allocated a v6 address that works with our carriers. So your statement is not relevant at all in comparing us to BP. We charge a lot less and still manage to support it with no issues, your missing the point I think. I support it, you can get a VDS / dedi / DSL from us with V6, however no carrier in Aus will support it natively for the consumer? I don’t see Bigpond / Optus / iinet offering as a standard offering like we do.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Joshua D'Alton<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 03, 2013 1:15 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] IPv4</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Size of the business doesn't really matter, its the margins that matter. You look at someone like Bulletproof, and while they probably don't do much more traffic than say serversaustralia, I'd bet they charge about 5x as much. And they support IPv6 AFAIK.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>@Peter, yea but there is only no benefit because the content providers like serversaustralia don't support it. Obviously it isn't limited to just Australia, most of serversaustralia sized businesses globally don't support IPv6, but imagine if they did.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>@Ross, might or might not make sense, but reality is reality. It isn't so much about them footing the bill for everyone else to change, it is about them being competitive in the market. If there is a business, 2yrs or 20 years old, that is facing growth issues due to lack of IP space, then it is up to them to decide how they want to remain competitive. They could moan and groan about IPv4 prices coming down and the fact they can't get any more, or they could move to ipv6 where the potentially large upgrade cost becomes merely nominal if they look 20 years ahead.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US>All these arguments seem to mirror the ones the copyright groups use. Somehow it is the rest of the worlds duty to keep their old dying business model alive.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Zone Networks - Joel <<a href="mailto:joel@zonenetworks.com.au" target="_blank">joel@zonenetworks.com.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So what you are basically saying ..</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Small business cant afford to move to ipv6 </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Large business can afford to move to ipv6 but couldnt give a damn..</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>That is brilliant… so Aus has <1% ipv6 traffic and that is cause of all the small business not running ipv6</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Joshua D'Alton<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 3 March 2013 12:34 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] IPv4</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>No one forced them into business. No one made them go for lower margins that would mean they aren't/weren't IPv6 ready.<span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal> <span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>If they decided to hop onto the sinking ship without a lifevest, its their own damn fault. If they went into business with software like cPanel and did nothing to try push for proper IPv6 support, again that is their own fault. Bigpond and Optus have very little reason from content serving perspective to have IPv6, so it was up to the major sources of content to get their side ready so that people like Bigpond and Optus actually had benefit in rolling out IPv6. Do you think David Thodey is going to go to his board and say "oh hey guys, here's a $100 million proposal to ready our network for IPv6, of course it won't benefit anyone as none of the content out there is IPv6, but it will cost us more if we have to do it later" and get an answer anything other than "bugger off, not interested, it might cost us more later but all we care about is this years bottom line, screw the future that is the next CEOs problem"?<span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Maybe instead of looking at it like the world is shafting these smaller businesses, maybe look at it like the world has given them a free ride all this time, and now it is time for them to step up. And if that means their business folds, well that means more customers for businesses that WILL survive and manage to implement IPv6 before the 22nd century.<span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I gotta tell you though, over the past year or so there have been some fairly massive players on the global stage that have all started charging a lot more for IPv4, and aside from a few complaints from businesses being run out of India or Malaysia or somewhere where low margins work really well, the majority of customers have understood the reality of the cost of IPv4. And none of them have left the providers, because while the IPv4 cost increased, overall these lowish margin providers are still a damn sight cheaper than the majority of companies. <span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 12:21 PM, Peter Betyounan <<a href="mailto:peter@serversaustralia.com.au" target="_blank">peter@serversaustralia.com.au</a>> wrote:<span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>So basically any new businesses that are 1/4 of that age are<br>collateral damage in this mess , great view.<br><br>There is no force behind change then software providers like Cpanel<br>who would hold half the worlds content would move faster on forward<br>planning on ipv6. Big providers are at fault as it has been said no<br>residential move has been made by the likes of bigpond and Optus so<br>take up has been short of nil by market as no substantial end users<br>have ipv6.<br><br>Laying the blame on small providers is plain wrong.<br><br>Regards<br><span style='color:#888888'>Peter Betyounan<br><a href="http://www.serversaustralia.com.au" target="_blank">www.serversaustralia.com.au</a></span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br>On 03/03/2013, at 7:06 AM, Mark Smith <<a href="mailto:markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au" target="_blank">markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au</a>> wrote:<br><br>><br>>> ________________________________<br>>> From: Peter Betyounan <<a href="mailto:peter@serversaustralia.com.au" target="_blank">peter@serversaustralia.com.au</a>><br>>> To: Jared Hirst <<a href="mailto:jared.hirst@serversaustralia.com.au" target="_blank">jared.hirst@serversaustralia.com.au</a>><br>>> Cc: "<a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>><br>>> Sent: Saturday, 2 March 2013 7:16 PM<br>>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] IPv4<br>>><br>>><br>>> As I have always thought without forceful intervention by the governing bodies change will not come, financial incentives/penalties will be the key to this and until all big business can feel this change will not come why would it when they can CGNAT / buy more IP's / etc etc . The issue here is small to medium business who do not have the funds to buy more IP's will eventually die automatically monopolizing the market by leaving the big players which sucks for competition..../end rant.<br>><br>> It won't specifically be IPv6 or running out of IPv4 addresses that will have caused these businesses to fail. What those businesses will have really done is failed to plan ahead. In this instance, they've had 10 to 15 years to prepare and plan, and to incorporate the costs of the future upgrade into their current product prices. In most other instances e.g. a new tax, they'll have less than 12 months to prepare for it. A business that can't plan ahead with a 10 to 15 year notification period probably shouldn't deserve to survive, because it also probably doing a lot of other things wrong too, and has such slim margins that it doesn't have any ability to cope with the reasonable yet unexpected cost increases. Would they survive if power prices go up by 20%?<br>><br>> This sounds harsh, but it is the reality. Businesses that aren't good at being a business fail, and the resources they weren't utilising very well (e.g. people, infrastructure), are absorbed into businesses that are better at being businesses.<br>_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>